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Seeing this stuff makes me physically sick tbh
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
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Anti-zionism is not antisemitism.
Yes it is, and its a smokescreen to say it is not.
Your downvotes doesn't make your racism not exist. Mobs always think they're right. Fuck all of you.
Do you care to back up your claim at all or are you just going to go with "these two distinct words with distinct definitions actually mean the same thing because I said so" the same way TERFs and transphobes talk about sex and gender?
Is it possible to support the black community in America without supporting black separatism?
Yeah, you're not real bright.
It can be but it isn't necessary. I am a Jew and not a Zionist. Obviously the example above is anti simetic, but there are peaceful (but depending on your views perhaps tenuous) arguments against the state of Israel
"kill the Jews" and "death to the Jews" are antisemitic not anti Zionists. JFC
Solid attempt at pretending to miss the point.
The point being that you're ignoring the actual content you're responding to?
If you really wanna play out that conversation, here's how that goes:
I say "The vicious Nazi graffiti doesn't belong in the same category as the anti-zionist protest signs"
And you say "Those protest signs aren't just anti-zionist, they're antisemitic. If you're calling for the end of the state of Israel, you're calling for the extermination of Jews everywhere."
And I say "So if you really just wanted to say that anti-zionism is antisemitism, why did you pretend to agree in your first reply?"
--
But we don't need to bother with that tedious BS, because I can use my super hacker skills to... view your comment history.
You're trying to replicate OP's original sleight-of-hand.
Placing unequivocal Nazi shit in the same category as people calling for international law to finally be applied against a decades-long genocidal regime, and then saying "You gotta tolerate or detest 100% of these things in one fell swoop. It's a bundle deal. And remember, I put some Nazi shit in there!"
If you've watched just 2-3 hours of news coverage in the past 8 months, you've seen this play before. It doesn't -- or it shouldn't -- fool anyone anymore, and you should be embarrassed to even try it.
If you think anyone is so entitled to land that they can commit crimes against humanity without recompense, you've lost the plot. Is the land theirs? No idea and depends on who you talk to, cause quite frankly, the argument that they were there first means every American that isn't indigenous needs to get out, and that's not even a great 1:1 analogy. If they are indeed entitled to that land, there are waaaaaay better ways to goin about than bombing hospitals. Zionest are jus makin things worse for Jews in general, cause their religious fanatics that are sure in their crusade and the rest of us are either with them or against them.
Back when the British mandate was established the Jews purchased the land they occupied from the Ottomans. There isn't really much cause to suggest war crimes were committed until after said mandate ended and all the surrounding Arab states decided to declare war.
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948
Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.
Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948)
But why wouldn't you therefore return the USA to native Americans who also experienced war crimes, or perhaps Canada to the inuits
Well, if memory serves from what they told me on the heritage trip, the Israelis were kicked out pre Jesus, when they were defeated by.... Someone ( me memory ain't always the best) and said someone gave the land to a different set of enemies, bastardizing the name of enemies into Palestinians. So we're talkin about a much longer chunk of time, like less than 500 vs 2400 years, and as far as I remember ( could be wrong) the Palestinians we're the ones to kick them out, jus a different enemy. Also the indigenous people aren't bombing hospitals and food aid in hopes of pushing whitey back into the ocean, but do I think we owe reparations to them, among others, including that of more land? Absolutely. Does this include if it were to displace me? Sure. It would suck but ya know, if it was done above board and peacefully, not much I can do. Anything involving war crimes though would instantly loose my sympathy.
Sorry i wasnt very clear. I mean I believe the reverse. The USA was originally largely the pilgrims who were kicked out of the UK (specifically east midlands) due to religious persecution, in the same way that jews largely fled to Israel after persecution in other middle eastern countries.
Israel was created due to Jewish people being persecuted in Europe (Nazis), not the middle east. There were jewish people living in the region before.
Stuff like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Iranian_Jews
Cool thats not why israel was created. Its a manifestation of western guilt.
That’s not what zionists are fighting for, and you know it. Any argument you make for Israeli statehood applies to Palestinian statehood as well.
Further? Then state of Israel exists, and you can’t say the same about a Palestinian state, nor can you say Palestinians under Israeli rule have anything remotely resembling representation; while they’re being massacred in a genocide.
Of course oct 7th was fucking awful, and evil. But so is the campaign in Gaza, the west bank and Lebanon. It’s patently offensive to basic reason to try and justify what Israel is currently doing.
Any argument I make stands for both sides? Then doesn't that make you a hypocrite for disagreeing with the sentiment.
I am saying jews should have some right to exist inside Israel. Palestinian leadership wants them all dead/gone. From the river to the sea doesn't mean "lets share the land" in case you didn't know.
Uhm. Your last paragraph is wrong.
That’s Hamas. Who wouldn’t have nearly as much power if Netanyahu didn’t ensure they have the funds necessary to pose a semi-credible political entity… over a decade ago… specifically to disrupt Palestinian statehood and independence.
So, once again: Zionist’s are militantly opposed to Palestinian statehood, your argument is a bullshit red herring because Israel already has that and is currently the one committing fucking genocide to see that Palestinians never get it.
The last paragraph is not at all wrong. Lots of people other than Hamas want Israel to completely cease existing as a state. If you disagree with the sentiment that Israel should be able to have SOME land (and by extension the fact that chants like "from the river to the sea" are antisemetic) then you yourself are one of them.
Hamas was the official party recognized by Palestinian voters. If you have an issue with Israel acquiescing to their demands in order to maintain some sense of stability then you have no right to suggest they intentionally tried to sabotage relations.
Hamas was recognized by plurality vote (and substantially less than a majority,) in 2006- over fifteen years ago.
Of the people that would be eligible to have voted in ‘23, less than half of them were even able to votein ‘06.
Nice try at painting Hamas as democratic.
And once again you are fucking defending a sovereign state that is committing genocide for the sole purpose of- a state that already has that sovereignty you seem to believe they don’t.
It’s patently obvious that you are full of bullshit. Are you really saying that some Palestinians being extremists justified the genocide Israel is currently committing?
Are you really trying to say that Israel has the right to exist- and indeed are a sovereign state, but that Palestinians don’t? Because Israel is the one actively committing genocide, and has denied Palestinians representation for over 70 years, and whose current elected government is actively ensuring can never have representation.
Likud Party knows!
keeping Palestinians in open air prisons, requiring travel permits to go between concentration camps, which are often denied, and controlling the flow of good in and out of those camps while allowing the systemic encroachment on the west bank is, yeah, extermination. add onto it an ai-powered murder campaign and we can all see history repeating
Open air prisons? With a population density less than that of a typical american city? Malnutrition wasn't even a problem before the war. This open air prison narrative is just pure bullshit.
As for "controlling the flow of goods in and out" you have absolutely no legs to stand on. Even with import inspections in place Hamas has been consistently firing rockets into Israel hoping to murder random civilians since their inception.
thats a lie
"For years before the latest war, Gaza was subject to an Israeli blockade, backed by Egypt. Under the blockade, humanitarian aid, including food and commercial imports, was tightly restricted. Even so, levels of malnutrition among Gaza’s roughly 2.2 million people were low and comparable to those of countries in the region."
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/11/world/middleeast/gaza-famine-hunger-crisis.html
Straight from the mouth of a cretin who regurgitates the same bullshit talking points you do, so presumably you should have no problem trusting them.
it had been in decline since Israel walled them off and took all the good cropland, leaving them at the mercy of foreign aid, which itself is restricted by.. you're not going to believe this... israel
this doesn't mean israel didn't have them under seige.
The point is that Israel had a damn good reason to have the strip "under siege".
Did you expect them to just sit there and do nothing to prevent them from overwhelming the iron dome??? What the fuck is wrong with you
no, I expect them to give the right of return to the refugees
this isnt a rebuttal
Gaza Policy Forum summary: Experts agree that Israel’s dual-use policy causes acute distress
"a full lifting of the blockade is required "
In other words "Hamas must be allowed to import whatever armaments they desire"
Go check yourself into the hospital for brain damage if you think this is remotely tenable.
If you wanted to argue that they should just allow more food in or something I might have been able to have a conversation with you but clearly you just want to see Jews being indiscriminately murdered.
I'm an advocate for a Bi-National Secular State with equal rights for Palestinians and Israelis. You are literally advocating for the starving of Palestinian children and the deliberate de-development of Gaza. One of the many types of systemic violence used to maintain an Apartheid State.
After the founding of Israel, where over 750,000 Palestinians for ethnically cleansed, were the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. This is apartheid. Despite this, both Fatah and Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation.
Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ
History of peace process - The Intercept
Israel has had control of Gaza with the occupation and blockade since 1967, enforcing policies for the de-development of Gaza's economy. The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972.
With the Blockade, Israel controls all the sea, airspace, and border. Fishermen can't fish outside of 6-12 nautical miles before getting arrested or shot. Israel controls all travel in and out of Gaza. Over 60% of people were already food insecure before October 7th because Israel deliberately restricts food entering Gaza. Israel's policies of Water control left everyone in Gaza with half the water of the emergency WHO standards, now significantly less. Internationally, Gaza is recognized as Occupied.
Israel has shut off all food, water, electricity, and aid to Gaza. Because as occupiers they have that power over occupied territories. They've also repeatedly targeted refugee camps, hospitals, safe zones, and aid trucks.
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Israel claims it is no longer occupying the Gaza Strip. What does international law say?
The Gaza Strip − why the history of the densely populated enclave is key to understanding the current conflict