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submitted 8 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) said policy differences toward Israel between her and President Biden won’t stop her from supporting him in the November general election.

“Of course,” Omar said Tuesday, when asked by CNN’s Abby Phillip on “NewsNight” whether she would vote for Biden if the election were held that day, in a clip highlighted by Mediaite. “Democracy is on the line, we are facing down fascism.”

“And I personally know what my life felt like having Trump as the president of this country, and I know what it felt like for my constituents, and for people around this country and around the world,” Omar continued. “We have to do everything that we can to make sure that does not happen to our country again.”

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[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 92 points 8 months ago

It's insane how when someone criticizes anything about Biden, the first move is accusing them of supporting trump, and when they have to clarify trump is obviously worse, everyone then acts like their criticisms of Biden becomes invalid.

Biden is better than trump. But we deserve better than either option.

"Shutting up and voting Biden" doesn't help anything, and is what we give republicans shit for.

[-] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 45 points 8 months ago

Liberals always choose to stand in the way of progress. You'll never have better Dems if you don't criticize them. They aren't your friends and voting is a tool.

[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 13 points 8 months ago

Malcolm X put it well:

The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them.

But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox.

That said, many people have a mistaken view of voting.

They think “I’m picking someone who represents who I am as a person, and so who I pick is a reflection of my very soul.”

Or at best, they think “I’m picking someone who will act in my best interests. I may not like them as a person, but the actions they take are at least a good approximation of the actions I want them to take.”

The reality is more like “I’m picking someone who will inevitably act in the interest of those in power. I need to pick someone who has the right vulnerabilities. They don’t have a good rapport with certain powerful entities, so they don’t mind pissing those ones off if it means they can score some votes as a result.”

You’re not picking someone to lead your side. You’re picking who you’d rather negotiate with from their side.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 43 points 8 months ago

You're saying that here, but you have repeatedly said you're voting third party, and I among many others have given you shit for that, as well as your refusal to even acknowledge one thing you think Biden has done well. You complain about this so much on Lemmy that I recognize your name, and can usually tell when you've written a comment before I even look at the name. Go outside sometimes.

Feel free to respond to this but fyi I'm not going to read it.

[-] Timbits@lemmy.ca 16 points 8 months ago

Feel free to respond to this but fyi I’m not going to read it.

[-] fukhueson@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago

I too have seen exactly this from that user.

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[-] go_go_gadget@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

your refusal to even acknowledge one thing you think Biden has done well.

Because everything he's "done well" has been pretty much the same shit they've always done. It's not enough. You can blame Republicans all day long but we need something to change and Democrats are the only option available to progressives and leftists. But every single time there's an opportunity to demonstrate looking towards the future and making these changes Biden has passed that up. Here's some examples:

Called on congress to block the rail strike: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/biden-calls-on-congress-to-block-potential-railroad-strike
Walks back his own campaign promise for $50k forgiveness: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/539139-biden-balks-at-50k-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/
Goes around congress to sell weapons to Israel: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/29/politics/biden-congress-israel-military-aid/index.html
Forced federal workers back to office: https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/politics/in-person-work-biden-administration/index.html
Increased the defense budget: https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/28/politics/defense-budget-biden-administration/index.html

These behaviors put me as a voter in a no win situation. If I support Biden after all this what am I doing besides giving establishment Democrats and moderate voters a blank check opportunity to say "See? Everything is fine.". They will completely ignore the fact that I and other voters compromised our principles in order to prop up a candidate we hate for what he's done.

On the other hand I can protest vote 3rd party or write in. And of course that comes with it's own risks.

At what point will moderates and establishment Democrats have a moment of self awareness and admit that this isn't a sustainable model? Personally I had hoped 2016 would be that wake up call but instead I'm seeing people try to turn it around as if it's progressives and leftists who need to change.

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[-] Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works 29 points 8 months ago

It’s the dem magalike cult in action. It’s sad because by denying criticisms of Biden, they’re effectively endorsing changing nothing after the election.

[-] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 27 points 8 months ago

Supporting the nominee for president does not preclude criticism.

Is nothing going to change after the election if Biden wins? Probably not, no.

But in this situation, right now, that's a good outcome given how profoundly things will change if the other person wins.

I don't know how to make it understood that no matter what criticisms you have about the way Biden and the Democrats have been running this country, absolutely none of them, not a single one, is more important than preventing Trump from winning, because literally everything goes to shit forever if he wins again.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

As soon as conservatives got Faux New, neoliberals have been trying to get the same unquestioning support from their voters.

The issue is if Dem voters wanted that shit, they'd be republicans.

The people running the DNC don't understand basic psychology because when they finished their educations, psychology was still pretty new, and the only big studies was shit like Zimbardo that threw out the scientific method and had researchers meddling with experiments to get the desired result.

Imagine if Verizon hired a guy that stilled used a beeper instead of one of those newfangled mobile phones.

Sounds ridiculous, right?

But that's what we're doing with politics and psychology

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[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 29 points 8 months ago

Sure, but "right now" you need to vote for Biden or risk never being able to vote again.

[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 37 points 8 months ago

and the general election is eight fucking months away, so it’s 100% justifiable to vote however the fuck I want to in the primary.

Which I did, and I voted uncommitted. And I will vote for not Trump in November. But don’t mistake my enthusiasm for “not living in a fascist theocratic state” for enthusiasm towards Biden, because it’s not and never will be.

[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Apologies. I wasn't talking about the primaries. I was talking about the presidential election.

Edit: I didn't realize they were talking about the primaries. My bad.

[-] Addv4@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Edits aside, that is kinda the issue. I have disliked Biden not because he's Biden, but largely because I feel he's a little more conservative of a president than I would like. Will I vote for him still if he's up against Trump? Unless he genuinely gives me a reason to think he'd be as bad as Trump (pretty damn unlikely), yes. But I very much dislike his handling of the Israeli - Palistinian conflict, so much so that during the primaries I voted uncommitted. But every time I bring up my opinion, the default is not to say that I must be implicitly be a Trump supporter because I'm not 100% behind Biden. I live in the southeastern US, so I absolutely have family that are Trump supporters, and that argument of all or nothing is sounds very similar in my mind to those that support Trump. I'd argue that this rhetoric of total support will most likely be more damaging than not for the democrats, as it has actually made me more wary about voting for Biden than I suspect I would be otherwise.

All I’m seeing here is that you don’t seem to understand how the spoiler effect works in an entrenched two-party political system, which this is. Also, it appears you’re not aware of how absurdly tilted to the right the electoral mechanisms have become in this country - largely due to gerrymandering, and the continued refusal of Congress to reapportion the number of Representatives in the house from the cap imposed in 1929.

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[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 23 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

And since DNC pulled NH primary delegates for something only republicans can change and Biden supported it...

We can't even use your point to convince people.

This sham of a Dem primary might be our last.

Do you think NH republicans learned their lesson and will change NH state law so the NH Dem primary doesn't have to be first?

Or do you think they'll leave the law in place so in 2028 the DNC cancels the NH primary again?

The only people that can fix it are NH republicans and the DNC. And the DNC seems fine with just not letting NH Dems have a say in who the candidate is.

What's stopping the DNC from canceling other states that vote progressive like NH was?

They've already argued in court they can do what they want, because primary is nonbinding and they can just ignore it anyways.

This is the danger of just blindly supporting Dems no matter what. They keep acting more and more like Republicans

[-] Carrolade@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

DNC conspiracy theory nonsense gets so tiresome. You had some legitimate grievances over what happened with Bernie, but not really in the recent primary. Unless you can name the challenger to Biden that was worth spending money holding the primary for.

I sincerely hope the far left does fall in line with its own party eventually, with some voting reform we could make a multiparty system viable. For now though, much like in WW2, we have fascists to defeat. Regardless of how much liberals and communists may dislike each other, we are at least capable of civil cooperation.

It'd just be nice if you stopped trying to attack all forms of liberalism so hard and take over the dem party just like MAGA took over the repubs. It won't work on educated people in the same way fascism can convince the uneducated. We tend to know the difference between liberal and neo-liberal.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

I mean you say 'legitimate grievances' then proceed to ignore what happened to NH.

The reality of the situation that we're all in is that oarty primaries are the only 'real' mechanism we get to engage with democracy in a material way, and time and time again the stewards of those parties are thumbing the scales towards specific outcomes.

You acknowledge it, then dismiss it as 'nonesense'. It's not fucking nonsense. There is almost nothing 'democratic' about the DNCs primary process. If you run a competitive race but aren't the predidermined party leadership acceptable candidate, they steal it from you, in fact, they'll conspire to do so. If a state 'votes wrong', they take your primary from you. It's material and real you chucklefuck and dismissing it trivializes the real consequences it has around voter disenfranchisement.

If we consider the primary process to be a part of our political system, and we should because it is, the DNC is less democratic than some of the lowest ranking "democracies" in the planet. The RNC didn't rig their primary to stop Trump. The DNC did so to stop Bernie, twice. And when a state which was one of the first in the nation primaries gave the primary to the non-dccc candidate, they took the primary away from that state.

It's an indefensible mockery of the word democracy to call the DNCs primary a democratic process

[-] Carrolade@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Conveniently skipped over where I asked someone, and anyone can do this, to name the viable leftist challenger in the recent NH primary, that would make holding it worthwhile.

And really, can name a non-leftist challenger too if you want, if you really think Dean had a real shot or something.

The degree of personal attacks and cherry-picked arguments in here is remarkable.

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[-] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

People complaining about the process of the Democratic Primary this year seem to have forgotten that there is only one viable candidate this time around. If somebody else viable had announced his candidacy this year, I would be there with you all the way. However, if an open primary implies that Biden has to debate anti-vaxer Kennedy as his closest competitor, I don’t see what the point is. This primary is not rigged by the DNC, but by other candidates (e.g. Whitmer/Newson/AOC) not running.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

People complaining about the process of the Democratic Primary this year seem to have forgotten that there is only one viable candidate this time around.

So...

You're saying Biden was going to win no matter what, so the DNC yanking NH delegates and Biden being outspoken in support of that is fine?

If he was going to win anyways, why would Biden and the DNC risk taking that incredibly undemocratic step?

Why wouldn't they just let the most progressive candidate win NH for the third time?

Why remove their delegates and have Biden publicly take himself off the ballot just to spend campaign money on a write in campaign?

How is any of what Biden and the DNC logical if you're right?

[-] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

The main point is that if you are ever putting pressure on NH to change the date on their primary election, then this is the time.

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[-] TheKetchupSong@lemmings.world 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Question: If they run an even worse candidate next time, which considering the trend of them all, they will; Will you finally allow leftists to stop blindly voting for a party that doesn't reflect their values?

At what point will the responsibility be on the dems to appeal to us, instead of us blindly backing the blue against our better wishes?

[-] djsoren19@yiffit.net 10 points 8 months ago

The answer is never, so it's time to start organizing now. Labor unions are on the rise for the first time in a century, and historically are an incredibly strong voting bloc. Coordination between them could lead to a proper leftist party, split from the Dems.

[-] sailingbythelee@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Splitting the left would result in a permanent Republican majority.

[-] djsoren19@yiffit.net 4 points 8 months ago

That presupposes the Republican party survives. They've put a lot of capital into Trump, and if he loses this November there's a good chance he's just dead before he gets a chance to run again. None of the other claimants to the throne are anywhere near as popular amongst the cult.

Nobody is suggesting we get a leftist party together for November. That's just not possible, and getting a president would be meaningless. Organize for midterms, start getting house and congress seats. Work with the Dems while the Republican threat remains, but prepare for when their movement collapses to infighting

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[-] kofe@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Genuinely curious, how is Joe worse than Hillary?

[-] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

And the real fun begins when you look at what the Dems do in the primaries. Progressives get outfunded in favor of "centrist" Dems BY the DNC and DGA, and the DNC/DGA also have a bad habit of trying to elevate the craziest Republican to the general election in states all over the country.

The DNC et al would like very much to continue forcing democratic voters to vote for them to save the democracy the party are actively undermining.

Yall watch that bit on John Oliver about the mark robinson? I looked into it. Yes, the DGA ran their game ("attack" ads designed elevate fringe candidates into the public consciousness) in North Carolina and helped him secure the Republican nomination.

How much can a voter force a party like "that" left?

[-] yarr@feddit.nl 4 points 8 months ago

If you hate Democrats and Republicans, don't vote for them, but recognize that abstaining has consequences as well.

[-] jumjummy@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Sure, but there are only 4 options when November comes: 1) vote for Biden, 2) vote for Trump, 3) vote 3rd party, or 4) don’t vote.

Due to how the US system works, options 2-4 only help Trump, so unless you want a Trump presidency, only option 1 is valid.

Anything else is just at best a pipe dream, or at worst, direct support for someone who will become a dictator.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If the weatherman says a tornado is going to hit your town tomorrow, would you start getting upset at them for causing a tornado?

Or would you be appreciative that someone gave you a heads up while there's still time?

Because I see a lot of people frantically ringing alarm bells. For years at this point.

The primary still isn't over despite the DNC pulling delegates from NH.

There's still time to not run Biden. And I know that's unlikely.

But there's still also time to make noise and hope Biden and the DNC sees reason and move left so trump doesn't win

But telling people:

Shut up and vote Biden

Isn't going to get Biden enough votes to beat trump. He's sitting at less than 1/3 approval with voters...

We can't just stick our heads in the sand and hope that's enough.

If you want to be sure we beat Trump, start making noise and praying Biden actually listens.

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[-] yarr@feddit.nl 8 points 8 months ago

But we deserve better than either option.

You can deserve all you want, but that won't change the names on the ballot. If you really care, start organizing some grassroots support around 3rd parties, or perhaps take on a role in government in your local jurisdiction. The upcoming election is 99.999% going to be between Trump and Biden. Vote or not, there's very little you can do about alternatives at this point. Start working on the next one.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Man, if only we had an earlier election where we have a say in who the general candidate was....

But I'm sure if Biden doesn't move left and trump wins, you're going to do the rational thing and blame Biden and his campaign team for their words and actions.

I mean, it would be ridiculous if instead you blamed all the people who held their nose and voted D but spent 4 years telling everyone that Biden isn't popular enough to beat trump again. And he needs to do more to reach out to Dem voters.

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[-] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yeah and while it's ok and good for blue team punters to lecture ("ignorant", "petulant") non-biden voters or genocide haters on how important it is to" swallow what they don't like and vote D", just try and lecture them on any political history or conditions that led to your concerns. Anything that goes against their little sports team sends them into a tizzy

Im guessing they get mad cuz the tv told them to. They really just don't understand why others won't buy into their ridiculously simplistic worldview and it gets them breathing hard

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this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2024
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