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submitted 1 year ago by abobla@lemm.ee to c/nottheonion@lemmy.world
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[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 239 points 1 year ago

We want teachers to be teaching and not having to waste time measuring a girl’s shirt or making a girl feel uncomfortable,” Shultz said.

Good because policing what girls wear stems from this fucked idea that boys have no sexual self control or responsibility for same and that women thus have to take responsibility for it via modesty.

So with those idiotic notions, rape victims get blamed for appearance, consent doesn't enter the conversation, rapey boys are "boys being boys", and similar awful shit.

[-] hansl@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

For added context, Shultz is the school board president here. The stunt didn’t change the vote and the new policy that was being protested is the same as other schools in the area that didn’t have any problems regarding dressing.

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

For added context, Shultz is the school board president here.

Holy shit 😳 how did I miss that??

I'm glad his ridiculous antics failed.

[-] RupeThereItIs@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Not really no.

It comes from being distracting.

The point of school is learning, not fashion, not looking good.

Honestly this is why school uniforms are such a good idea. Cuts out the ambiguity of a dress code.

[-] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 70 points 1 year ago

Point of school is learning, yes. And fashion and looking good is also a part of learning, and expressing yourself, and attracting like minded individuals to build friendships, etc.

Boys should be taught to control themselves if someone nearby is "distracting", hey another thing they can learn at school. Teach kids how to be adults, not just algebra.

[-] rev_breather@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

The point is not about expressing yourself or looking good. Those are definitely positives.

The point is about dressing distractingly. Say for example the man in the picture takes class for you, are you telling me his outfit won't be distracting for you ?

It is distracting because it is out of place for where it is worn, school. This man could come like this for a party and he would be a hit.

The same applies for students, be it from any gender.

The counter argument I always see is "boys should be taught to control". While this is true and a certain amount of decency is expected from everyone even if they find someone attractive who is dressed non distractingly, the other side of the coin is that someone who is dressed inappropriately to the place (school) could distract "boys" even if they don't find the person attractive. This it is definitely the problem of the outfit.

In short the problem is the "everything goes" attitude

[-] spiderplant@lemm.ee 37 points 1 year ago

What happens outside of school when boys are faced with a much more relaxed dress code, you still going to victim blame and blame the outfit?

[-] optissima@possumpat.io 26 points 1 year ago

Eg, Imagine this anywhere else "I was driving, I saw someone wearing something showy, and I killed a pedestrian. I can't believe that lady was dressed hot, they made me kill a pedestrian." Does that seem right? No. Still the fault of the person looking.

[-] rev_breather@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Completely agree. The post is about the school dress code though.

[-] optissima@possumpat.io 14 points 1 year ago
[-] rev_breather@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Because outside world you are free to be who you want to be. But in the school you are meant to study and there is a decorum. Very similar to a library, you cannot speak in a library because it is distracting.

I have to be clear here, the problem lies in the subjectivity that "what is appropriate". To solve this we have uniforms. And If there is a better solution I'm in for that.

But as I stated before, one should not be one sided in their thought about this problem. Not everything can be dumped on the "boys should learn" phrase.

While boys should definitely learn, the outfit also should fit the decorum.

[-] spiderplant@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Dude I went to a catholic school with uniforms, it doesn't stop you getting distracted.

I think all it did was give me a low level thing for tights 😅

Also in the "outside world" you aren't truely free, there is public indecency laws at the very least.

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[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Should we take it to extremes and have everyone wear a sheet with two holes for eyes so nobody is "distracted"? Otherwise how do you know that something won't be distracting? Oh no, one kid is wearing a somewhat shiny watch--distraction imminent! Doom!

By the time kids hit high school, they're capable of not being distracted by others' attire and on occasion if they are, there's fortunately a teacher there to remind them to focus.

I recall being distracted a few times but I also didn't want to get in trouble or, you know, fail. And I have ADHD that wasn't diagnosed at the time. If someone is so easily distracted many schools will help the kid out (not like when I was growing up).

For example, my kid was distracted by noise when younger so she wore sound cancelling headphones. Now she can focus well enough without them.

Nobody is advocating for "anything goes." Some guidelines around basic decency are fine if it applies equally to boys and girls.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

In short the problem is the "everything goes" attitude

Who is promoting an "everything goes" attitude? Was the school proposing to have no dress code at all? What specific suggested change in the dress code is the issue here?

This whole "we can't let students come to class on their underwear" argument doesn't hold any water if the new rules wouldn't allow it either.

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[-] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Except anything can be distracting and there's a certainly a reason why the school girl outfit has so many sexy versions and lingerie. School uniforms are a terrible idea for many reasons. You generally can't buy then second hand, low income families now need two sets of clothing for their kids, and it is possible to buy "higher quality" ones from places like Macy's.

[-] threeduck@aussie.zone 29 points 1 year ago

I tell you what would REALLY help me not get distracted at school, if the girls had to wear burqas.

Then us fellas don't need to worry about learning self control or mental discipline. It's win win! By which I mean, two wins for men.

[-] Something_Complex@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I only agree with you because I could stare at the ass of a girl I used to have in my class all day. And I know for a fact I wasn't the only one.

Uffff but yhe that's still my fault and my bad, I shouldn't be asking her to wear more clothes so I can focus

[-] spiderplant@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A uniform doesn't stop that through, someone who is distracted by girls will continue to be distracted by girls no matter what they are wearing. Same goes for the other way around.

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

And you failed as a result?

If so, or if not, was that due to the ass or you?

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[-] Pasta4u@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

I went to a public high school where boys had to wear long pants all year round. We didn't have air conditioners. Meanwhile girls would wear skirts.

So stop woth the sexism.

Public schools should just have uniforms of a polo shirt and slacks , shorts or knee high skirts and that is it.

It will help also woth poor kids not having to be made fun of when some people come in with Gucci purses amd expensive shit.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago

Sounds like the dress code hurts boys as well. The solution is still to reform.

I've heard of male students wearing skirts in protest and that normally works with the Puritan school administrators.

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[-] EsheLynn 36 points 1 year ago

Who purchases the uniforms? You mentioned impoverished kids being made fun of, but the parents have to buy the expensive, overinflated uniforms as well. Wouldn't that put more strain on less well off families, having to buy specific clothes for their child's attendance, each year for each child?

[-] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I'm generally not in favor of uniforms, but this argument really goes both ways: who purchases (potentially very expensive brand) clothes in a school setting where the expectation is that kids constantly wear nice, new clothes to school? Even assuming that bullying or mobbing based on clothes isn't an issue, the cost to keep buying outfits could easily be higher than the cost of uniforms.

That said, I've known problematic settings only by proxy. At my school, nobody gave a fuck about what students were wearing, there was no dress code, and I would have absolutely hated being forced to wear a uniform.

[-] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago

No. It was just single colored shirt and pants. We got wal mart shirts for the dress code. They'll still fuck with you for your shoes.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 year ago

Yeah, kids will bully other kids no matter what. It doesn't matter what the rules allow to be worn.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

The parents do. We have to purchase school supplies and get nickeled and dimed for PTO stuff and field trips plus the school lunches.

Imagine if we expected soldiers to buy their rifle, pay for their meals, pay for their uniforms, imagine the outcry about troop readiness. Why do we tolerate it with education?

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[-] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago

I disagree completely. Uniforms have been proven to not help with anything they claim to. For one, they generally can't be bought second hand.

[-] jasondj@ttrpg.network 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Dude if you’re a parent with a friend group of other parents in your school district, there will absolutely be hand-me-downs going all over the damn place.

My kids have so many clothes that they’ve never worn because we just keep passing clothes around, between their friends and cousins, everyone is growing so fast, it’s foolish to be spending a ton of money on brand new clothes unless we need something for a specific special occasion.

I’m sure school uniforms, as long as they are consistent, would be swapped around. I’m sure there would be parent groups forming on Nextdoor and Facebook to swap clothes. And I’m sure they would show up at the thrift stores.

Secondhand uniforms would not be a problem.

But honestly the most important part is that schools don’t treat it as a fundraiser. They should be able to buy in bulk and coordinate with neighboring districts on selection to maximize discounts, and sell at slightly above cost in order to offset free/reduced cost outfits for low income families.

In other words, in theory, it should be less expensive to dress your kids in school uniform.

Personally I think uniforms solve a lot more problems than they cause. They sacrifice a bit of self-expression (at least the older kids, who mostly dress and style themselves), but at the same time, it takes a big hit out of financial inequality bullying. Combined with universal lunch programs it basically destroys it.

That in itself is worth it. Kids getting bullied (or feeling empowered, for that matter) for things 100% out of their control (like the caste they’re born into) shouldn’t be a thing.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Fine you have convinced me. I expect you to send meoney to pay for my kids uniform. Money order or cash since you don't seem like a person of your word.

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[-] optissima@possumpat.io 27 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry why is your solution "make the poors pay for something else."

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[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Yeah this is all wrong

  1. It won't be clothing can just get at Walmart, is practical, and comfortable. It will be polyester Landsend shit that is too expensive, rips easily, takes weeks to get there, and feels like steel wool on your skin. Meanwhile teachers and admins will continue to wear what they want.

  2. It won't promote equality since the poor kids will just have ripped up stuff and the rich kids will load up on the accessories

  3. Fucking deal with it. You should be able to handle not having the best clothing in life. I did.

My school tried a uniform for a few years and I have never once forgave them for that. I won't allow my kids to be punished the same way. Also someone found their old uniform in the attic many years later, shredded it with a knife, and mailed it to their former principal with a note that told them that's what I think of your messed up uniform policy you forced on us.

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[-] luky@infosec.pub 6 points 1 year ago

not agreeing. i would want to wear my clothes. just casual, nothing gucci or else. the school should offer uniforms but without forcing studemts to wear it. something like an advertisement.

[-] Kage520@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

You're getting down voted but as someone who had exactly 3 shirts and 2 pair of shorts in high school, I would have vastly preferred a uniform mandate. My mom had enough money she just didn't see extra clothes as a necessary expense for her. She would have been forced to get the uniforms and I would have had an easier time in high school.

People are also saying that's an unnecessary expense for the poor people, but why can the school afford the building, the teachers, administration, etc, but not 5 pairs of clothes for the students? Maybe even for need based students?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

why can the school afford the building, the teachers, administration, etc, but not 5 pairs of clothes for the students

Even in public schools, parents have to pay for the gym uniform. Books too.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I have not paid a cent for either and my kids attend public

[-] luky@infosec.pub 12 points 1 year ago

yeah wtf that makes no sense

this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2023
337 points (100.0% liked)

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