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this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2026
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I don't fully agree. Of course it's problematic that people voted for trump, that's out of the question. But the question should rather be: What circumstances led to someone voting for trump?
People are actually struggling a lot and voting for the person advertising a solution can seem very attractive if you desperately need an improvement.
In the end, voting doesn't fix the underlying system and can only achieve marginal improvements. All Parties are only managing the same capitalistic state and not changing the whole system.
Ostracizing people based on their vote is not a proper solution and will not lead to people voting for someone different. People are more likely to reinforce their existing beliefs if met with heavy resistance.
Also the party war is distracting from the actual class war.
Maybe I took the meme too seriously but I think it's important to consider.
No War But Class War!
Edit: Maybe don't hang out with them, but analyze the reasons that made them vote in the way they did. People who voted for trump probably have the same problems with capitalism that you do but their anger is misguided by populism and capitalist propaganda.
"Voting for the person advertising a solution" ah yes, the dude who said "Concepts of a plan" And word-salad's his way through everything because his brain is as smooth and squishy as half-melted butter. What an excellent solution man he is.
I'm not "ostracizing people based on their votes" I'm ostracizing people who actively want to strip me of my rights, and quite possibly want to physically harm me fuck off with this "We should all be friends, it's the only way to convince them" shit. I'd have better luck convincing a hungry polar bear I'm not food.
We all knew who trump was going into 2024. I can forgive 2016, in truth, I didn't expect him to be as bad as he was. I can barely forgive people who voted in 2020, because by then we all knew he was a fucking idiot and people should have known better. But 2024? Nah. Fuck them. We all saw how dumb he was, we all saw january 6th, we all knew about project 2025, anything less is willful ignorance.
It's not just a "party war," it's a morality war. If you voted for trump in 2024, you have zero morals, empathy, and I genuinely believe you lack the capability to participate in society in any meaningful way.
I, for one, expected 2024 Trump in 2016. At this point, I'm still paralyzed by shock that we managed to get a second chance to save the country in 2020 and completely squandered it.
I guess my perspective is slightly different as I was fresh out of high-school, looking at my first presidential election, almost no interest in politics, and my only real opinion of trump in 2016 was "dude is disgusting and a moron."
I ended up voting third party that election, something about if third party votes were above 5% they would earn more funding or something? I was in a very blue state at the time, so I knew trump wasnt going to win my state, and I figured maybe that 5% was doable that election.
I don't think you are aware of how desperate a lot of people were. I know it's easy to villainize people who want to take away the rights of people you love and yourself. My friends and me would be affected by his policy too if we lived in the US. But the people who voted for trump are still human and not evil in person. They have their own reasoning and problems, they were just convinced of the wrong target. They probably have a lot of the same problems with capitalism that a lot of people have. They just aren't targeting capitalism but some minority or foreigners in general.
I actually live in the US. I have family that voted for him. They're not desperate in the way you think they are. They're all some combination of dumb, ignorant, or the worst of the bunch, the actually evil.
I tried to befriend them, to convince them that the enemy is not what they thought it was. I spent ten fucking years doing that shit. But in the end:
My cousin is dumb, he votes for trump because he thinks trump is an uneducated everyman like himself "He speaks the way I speak."
My aunt is evil, she votes for trump because he makes her stock portfolio look good, damn the consequences "I voted for trump because we all need to vote for our own best interests."
My grandma is ignorant, she doesn't understand the way the world works today, things have changed too much from her generation to really grasp it "I voted for trump because the world is a scary place, and we need his security."
All three are evil in their own way. My grandma never took the time to consider the viewpoint of others, no matter how many times she was given opportunity. My cousin never learned, or trusted in those that knew more than him on a subject. My aunt, the most vile of them all decided that she didn't care enough about her kids and grandchildren, and that the bottom line was all that mattered.
There is no convincing these people. As another commenter said? Fuck em.
One day they will wake up, and realize that actions had consequences, and it's far too late to take it back.
I know exactly these issues myself. It's the same in Germany with AFD voters.
Why do you think your family believes that way? Do you think they were born that way/ born evil?
Raised in an evil culture. Christian Nationalism, White Supremacy, prosperity gospel, the Anerican myth of rugged individualism, there are many avenues but the main pressure is the same: they value only themselves or people closely aligned with them and believe personal gain is the most important goal. Or they're the delusional cultists, the true believers that genuinely think they're fighting a war for God in some way.
And that's why I think people are able to convinced by discussion. It might take some time and it might be difficult but they are still human at the core. I don't think people like this should get a platform but it is necessary to push against the spread of hatred and the deeply ingrained propaganda. It is difficult but not impossible.
Not worth the effort. Fix their children by supporting public education and fighting the sources of propaganda. Push for laws about what is allowed to be said in the news, punish lying or fraud.
Changing the mind of an adult who is not trying to change is close to impossible. One of the first steps in breaking indoctrination is cutting off from the source and any connected social ties or they'll just get dragged back in. And those social ties make them feel good, they feel validated and important when their community agrees. You can't fight that.
Yep, it's frustrating, having had plenty of theological and ethical debate in my life was enough to convince myself to not bother talking to these people, it's an act of futility, a waste of your own good time
I'll challenge stupid-ass ideas in public spaces. Not because I think it makes a difference for the source but just to ensure other people see an alternative. Theological and ethical debates can be fun and rewarding with people you share mutual respect, not with anonymous jackasses looking to get a rise out of folks.
It's been over a decade and they've had mountains of facts dumped on them and it hasn't moved the needle. The only thing that's changing them is if they end up being personally affected by their own actions. And even then, they tend to just default to blaming liberals/democrats for their self-induced problems.
And? Plenty of irredeemably evil humans have existing throughout human history.
Raised in an evil culture is how most Republican voters end up being Republican voters. But I'd like to add that being raised in an evil culture is not an excuse for remaining evil as an adult.
Part of adulthood is accepting responsibility for your character and not continuing to blame your faults on your upbringing.
There are many people raised in religious households that grow up to not be religious. And religions are an EXTREMELY entrenched form of cult culture. So it's totally possible to break free of programming.
I just don't want to give conservatives an easy out to blame others. They don't deserve it.
Democracy requires education / free press, modest prosperity and peace. We don't have those any more. A socialist slogan: fascism is capitalism in decay. Also let the system and institutions rot. We know our election systems are garbage.
If you divide the population into a smarter and a stupider half (however you want to define that) the stupid half will always be easier to manipulate, distract, less able to foresee and understand the consequences of policy and decisions. Is it their fault that we let them be brainwashed with evil ideology and religion?
Advertising / public relations / brainwashing is a technology that significantly advanced. We didn't. Those with money or power can hire the smartest people to make fool of us all.
Hierarchical systems require people to advance and each step filters who advances and who doesn't. Instead of a meritocracy, it leads to selfish people who are solely focused on advancement at the expense of anything else like empathy, loyalty, education, truth etc. If you can't play this game you loose. The larger the hierarchy, the worst scum you end up with at the top. And those at the top set the rules of society.
Democracy is fundamentally incompatible with capitalism. But the vast majority of people still believe in (neo)liberalism and the free market to somehow "as if by invisible hand" guide humanity towards a brighter future. Trump voters are stupid, agreed, but there is a lot of stupidity left for the rest of them.
Exactly, we got trump because he's the president we deserve. I can't count on one the amout of people i see throwing trahs out their window while driving, they dont give a fuck about this country at all, they just pretend to because it helps them make more money. If trump actually brings this country down, they'll just fucking move to another country they own property in and cry about how the democrats ruined america.
You don't even live in the US, whereas most of us here know or are closely related to people who voted for him.
But sure, you probably know better.
I've lived through the conditions that produced MAGA, and I honestly could not care less if they felt "desperate." A lot of us have felt desperate, it doesn't excuse literal fascism.
I'm sure slave owners felt desperate when Lincoln gave the Emancipation Proclamation. That's about how much I care about MAGA voters' claims of "desperation".
By the way, try actually finding out specifically what those people mean and you'll eventually realize that it comes down to ignorance, racism and xenophobia.
They became "desperate" after a black man was elected president twice.
My parents are comfortably retired and voted for Trump purely because Fox News (and possibly right-wing local TV news) brainrot told them to. Not even social media, which they are too computer-illiterate to use! Just TV!
(Well, maybe my dad's church, too. I've never gone so I have no idea what they're telling him. All I know is that him being more religious than my mom correlates with him being more brainwashed...)
Anyway, the point is that they definitely don't have "desperation" as an excuse. Every single "problem" they have is either imaginary or actively being worsened by Trump and the Republican Party.
Hell, if you ask my mom why she didn't vote for the Democrat (any of 'em, take your pick from Kamala Harris to Al Gore) it's always some bullshit about how she didn't like their tone, or something. She probably couldn't name an actual policy position of theirs at gunpoint! She just sits around watching TV news and hates who the TV tells her to hate.
My Southern family are not desperate, they're just the kind of Christian that cares more about abortion than anything else on Earth and are constantly plugged into the right-wing media propaganda.
My Eastern Washington family are not desperate, they're just the special kind of entitled that refuses to accept that their wealth (banking and farming) came off the backs of others.
Tons of people voted for Trump because they're bigots and have let themselves be convinced that their fantasy version of the country is being attacked by whatever group or groups they hate.
Religion is a similar but different issue which is very difficult to discuss about as it is often deeply engrained in people's minds.
Rich people is kinda the opposite of what I was talking about. They often actively profit from trump or are not affected in the slightest. It is not the group we should be focused on convincing as they aren't really workers.
People aren't bigots out of nowhere. They have real worries but their anger is misguided by the ultrawealthy so they don't lose their power.
The voters shouldn't be the enemy. They are mostly victims of propaganda. The system needs this propaganda so few people can continue to profit. This applies to all of the categories above except if your relatives are part of the ultrawealthy.
I love blaming shit on the ultrawealthy, but I think I'll draw the line at bigotry. If someone is an adult and a bigot, that's all on them.
Counterpoint: fuck 'em.
That is not how we will get past capitalism. We need to pick up people where they are. You don't need to agree but you need to take problems and worries seriously to actually convince someone. Antagonizing only reinforces current opinions.
No, fuck them.
That's a lot of words for "I will be hanging out with Nazis".
Maybe not hanging out but at least trying to understand the reasons that led to the vote. I myself don't have friends that voted AFD but I think they have a lot of the same problems that I do. Their anger is just very misguided.
It's possible to both understand the reasons why the US election went the way it did, and hold individuals accountable for their behaviour, including the way they voted.
I have a lot of compassion for people who get so caught up in the right wing propaganda machine that they're willing to vote against their own best interest out of fear. I can't even begin to imagine living in so much terror of some nebulous other that I end up thinking it's okay to round up immigrants, bomb children, and criminalize people's gender identities. It sounds like a horrible way to exist in the world. I am so very angry at the systems that have allowed things to get this bad. That doesn't change the fact that those individuals are still responsible for the harm their actions - and votes - have caused, and people who are willing to throw away basic human decency like that rather than put the work in to examine their own biases are not welcome anywhere near my life.
In other words, causing harm out of misguided anger does not diminish the harm done. So, fuck 'em. It's not my job to play nice in the hopes that they'll have some come-to-Jesus moment.
Right? Why are people trying to make excuses for grown ass adults who have been ignoring a tsunami of facts for over a decade in favor of voting against the best interests of others AND themselves?
I'm old enough to have been around watching conservatives/regressives vote against their own best interests for quite some time, but it's gotten a whole lot more gross over the last decade.
I will never view conservatives as good people and I'm glad more people are starting to reach that same conclusion. The masks are off now. We're seeing what they're really about.
I'm telling you, we are past that.
That period is over.
They've lost the benefit of the doubt.
how about the people who worry about all those who voted for a rapist. Thrice?
voting for a rapist tells you one or two things, you are one yourself, or you support rape. theres no in between of maybes.
I'm so fucking sick of this motto. Intersectionality exists and should be more recognized by those on the left.
That's not what the motto means though. Women's rights and Minority rights are restricted because of capitalism. They have a purpose in the capitalistic world. The class war fights these issues as well. At least in the proper marxist theory.
Yeah Cesar Chavez is a shining example, isn't he?
The left's outright support of Platner certainly isn't an indicator of issues on the left with this, is it?
I've heard that motto used to dismiss and downplay concerns about gender and equality so many times now.
I don't know Chavez or Platner right now, sorry.
I know what you are talking about, I hate that too. Actual marxist theory attributes gender and equality to the class issue as well, which is why gender and equality are part of the class war. They should be viewed as one issue and not seperately. There won't be gender equality before there is class equality.
Edit: looked up Chavez. I do agree with his tactics. The owning class has nothing without workers.
I think supporting Platner is a positive sign as it shows that the root cause is still visible.
Edit 2: I was not aware of these two people and their crimes. I only support their movements but not their personal actions. I should've researched them more.
Cesar Chavez is a rapist and pedophile.
Platner is also a rapist.
Good to see you upholding Class War over Gender War though and pretending like they're the same.
I think the union work actually helped with gender issue as equal pay and better pay helps a lot with emancipation.
It is still just as problematic, if he personally is an abuser
You believe that it's good to look the other way on individual crimes if it benefits the working class?
This is exactly what I mean when I'm sick of hearing that motto being shoved everywhere there's concerns that aren't focused strictly on working class issues.
No, I think that the people commiting these crimes should lose their position of power.
The unionization should continue though even though it was started by a criminal.
The crimes should be spoken about and addressed properly.
Chavez's crimes never came to light until after his death because everyone was so scared of the movement being dismantled.
They should be spoken about and addressed properly, but they don't. And that's the problem I'm speaking directly about.
I don't want to hear more cheers for class war over everything else. We can tackle multiple problems at once without sacrificing women and girls.
That is correct.
For me the motto means that we shouldn't disconnect gender problems and others from the class war but that they should be fought as one issue. They are deeply connected after all
I agree with you. Trump and his White House cronies are corrupt, vile and self-serving criminals, rapists and bigots, but the fact they are in powerful office positions is a mere symptom of a wider problem with the American political, educational, media, and economic system.
Vowing to disassociate with anyone who voted for Trump and other rapists might make a good social media post or meme, but it does virtually nothing to resolve underlying issues, in order to prevent rapists from gaining power in the USA to begin with. In my eyes, solidarity is a more powerful tool than trying to find the true Scotsmen.
Exactly, their decisions might be bad/invalid but their problems are real
When I have problems I don't default to being a bigot and hurting others.
The reaching out period is over. For a decade we've tried to get them to see reason. I'm not doing another decade. When someone won't listen to reason, the only tool you have left in your toolbox is to cut them off to see if that's enough of a punishment to get through to them. Being lonely and ostracized can be a catalyst for change.
There is no solidarity with those who support felons and rapists in order to harm others and refuse to listen to even their own family and friends. That's just a simple fact.