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Gaza police battle gang members accused of stealing humanitarian aid
(www.middleeasteye.net)
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this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
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The gangs are backed by Israel according to an UN memo obtained by the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/18/gaza-looting-aid-convoys-israel-famine/
Accuse Hamas of being Isis (after supporting them financially for decades), then turn around and support actual ISIS to aid in their genocide. Warms my heart to see the most moral army in action.
Israeli soldiers have also set a school on fire right after it got aid to prevent the starving population from getting any aid
This latest aid convoy was also forced to abandon their planned departure time and route by the Israeli military and told to go early and on an unfamiliar route where they wound up getting attacked and hijacked. This was so obviously planned out by Israel.
Didn't this happen some time ago or did they just do it again?
Is there evidence that the Israeli soldiers did it?
From the Haaretz article:
Hearsay is not evidence.
Being near something is not evidence of having done it.
Why would the IDF attack a convoy they they themselves approved?
Hearsay is not evidence.
Reports by who? With what evidence?
Clearly objectivity and media literacy are at an all time low. What a shame.
This is not a court proceeding, so saying "hearsay is not evidence" is pointless. Witness testimony before a court would be evidence. And all we know as of now points towards Israel doing it. The details will have to be proven in court, when they eventually get their Nuremberg.
You're right. In fact the stakes are much higher than a court proceeding, as is the need to be accurate and certain about allegations.
It would be, if the witness was someone deemed to be credible and if what they saw was consistent with other confirmed facts.
You should be glad that we happen to live in a world where "I saw them do it!" alone isn't enough to convict someone of a serious crime.
Good! And if/when that time comes, and the details are proven beyond a reasonable doubt with hard evidence, then it can be said to be a fact. What a concept, eh?
As of now, what you are describing is little more than a conspiracy theory akin to "stop the steal", flat earth, birtherism, and so on. All this conversation has shown is that the Lemmy groupthink is just as prone to believing conspiracy theories and propaganda that conforms to their biases as some of the wack-jobs on the far right.
If the story was flipped and we were accusing Palestinians of burning down an Israeli school I'd be making all the same points. You know why? Because If your standards for truth and objectivity morph and change depending on which side of the holy war you're talking about, then you don't really give a damn about the truth at all, do you?
Wow, you're quite divorced from reality. What is a credible witness to you then? Something like this perchance?
Nice story bro. As far as I know, no one has been convicted before a court for the October 7th attacks. We shouldn't talk about the massacres then, right? 🤡
Ooh, the ad homenim into family guy meme baseless "you're racist" strawman argument.
Now you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel of stupid shit to say, aren't you?
You're the one bringing race into this and I can only hazard a guess why....
Nice one "bro", but there are hundreds of hours of high-resolution video footage of October 7th, much of which was recorded and published by Hamas militants themselves. Innocent people being fucking shot and killed, their homes and communes ransacked, men, women and children taken captive (about 100 of which are still unaccounted for today).
Is this your idea of good argument? Denial of a objectively horrible and well-documented massacre of people in broad daylight?
If so, that pretty disgusting. You dropped this 🤡
IF the evidence behind October 7th was "I dunno maybe it happened because someone says that they saw someone who looked like Hamas do something near something else but maybe not", then I would also have a very difficult time accepting that as fact. I would want to some actual evidence of that, wouldn't you?
Someone like you, who is more biased and hateful, would gladly accept something so inconclusive as a fact to justify their feelings of blind anger and tribal vengeance.
This holy war will go on for another 80 years because of people like you who are willing to believe anything that makes them feel better about whichever side of this pointless bullshit that they happen to subscribe to.
this holy war will not go on for another 80 years. because at the current rate, every Palestinian left in Gaza will be dead in a year. and you seem to be fine with Israel withholding aid and now, according to current evidence (but not yet proven in an international court) destroying or helping destroy what little aid does get in.
I'm done with this, I'm blocking you now. I'm sick of having to argue that genocide is wrong.
And the other possibility is that Hamas set their own school on fire because....?
I love that you will attempt to break that argument down, yet just ignore the complete idiocy of the only real alternative.
Nothing can ever happen unless maplebar witnesses it personally
Wouldn't be the first time...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/gaza-civilians-afraid-to-leave-home-after-bombing-of-safe-routes
Or the 2nd... or the 3rd...
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5932/Israel-uses-its-%E2%80%98safe-corridor%E2%80%99-in-Gaza-as-trap-to-murder-and-detain-Palestinians-fleeing-Israeli-violence
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-turns-safe-corridor-gazas-south-trap-kill-hungry-forcibly-displaced-palestinians-enar
If you're not even going to believe Israeli media...
Idiots believe "media", intelligent people believe concrete evidence, of which there is none to back up the original claim.
Source on ISIS being behind the looting?
Every source I've seen suggests it's home grown Palestinian gangsters lead by Abu Shabab.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-11-11/ty-article/.premium/the-idf-is-allowing-gaza-gangs-to-loot-aid-trucks-and-extort-protection-fees-from-drivers/00000193-17fb-d50e-a3db-57ff16af0000
https://archive.md/t28IY
So source: the IDF
"The UN says it's the Jews fault that Palestinians are stealing from Palestinians!"
Funny how Palestinians can apparently do no wrong. 🤣
Palestinians can do no wrong at this point. This is like judging the Jews, queers, and other minorities in Auschwitz for their methods of fighting back. They’re a people fighting for their very existence from the most brutal fascist regime most of us have ever had the horror of witnessing.
You may want to read up some about how LGBTQ people are treated in Gaza before you come out with gems like that, amigo...
Don't choose to be brainwashed. Both Israel and Palestine have done horrible and atrocious shit throughout this >80 year conflict. There is zero excuse for the blatant disregard of innocent civilian lives that we have seen on both side over the last 14 months alone. This is not a blank-and-white, good-vs-bad, situation.
How do you read that 2 million people are being deliberately forcibly displayed, starved, and targeted; and respond with a laughing emoji. It's not surprising that everybody in Gaza is desperate for food and aid when they've been starved and bombed nonstop for an entire year. How do you read that and laugh?
I'm laughing at the patently absurd and ridiculous conspiracy theory that the local Palestinian gangs lead by the Palestinian Abu Shabab are "backed by Israel". A claim that has literally zero evidence or basis in fact behind it.
This isn't about me, other than the fact that this is about Palestinian thugs stealing the humanitarian aid that my taxes have helped pay for from other Palestinians.
You might as well tell me that the Earth is flat and the aid trucks fell of the edge. It's ridiculous coping bullshit that one can only assume was made up to try to remove all nuance from the discussion by blaming it on the Israelis.
Yeah so ridiculous. It's not like Netanyahu's government has directly given Hamas aid in the form of literal cash.... Wait
There is evidence
Gaza police battle gang members accused of stealing humanitarian aid
This entire famine created by Israel is deliberate and intentional. If you're worried taxes, you should be focused on the magnitudes more, over 17 billion, going to the weapons being used to facilitate this genocide. All this chaos only goes to show how woefully inadequate the humanitarian aid has been and how much more is needed.
A "UN memo" saying that the gangs "may be benefiting" from the Israeli army isn't exactly conclusive evidence now is it?
A.K.A. Hamas
Because Palestinian gangsters have stolen all of the aid that Western countries have donated to them, while Hamas' allies in Iran and Russia laugh their fucking asses off at us.
Gaza is right on the Mediterranean Sea, where people have been thriving off fish and produce since prehistory. At some point you're going to have to stop blaming Israel for all of Palestine's problems and failings, especially since (as you rightfully pointed out) it is Palestinian gangsters who are stealing the aide, not Israelis.
I like how quick you are to shift the goalposts from "there's no evidence. None at all" to "oh that evidence you provided? It isn't conclusive evidence". Keep cheering for genocide if that's what you want to do, there's no need to pretend this is about anything else.
Go ahead and explain to me about how a UN memo saying that something "may be" happening is "evidence" of anything?
Is it happening or is it not happening? If this was something that there was undeniable evidence of, do you think the report would say that it "may be" happening or that it "is" happening?
That's not moving the goalposts, that's just basic reading comprehension--something you clearly lack.
Ah, here it is, the strawman we've all been waiting for!
I'm against any Israeli desire for genocide against the Palestinian people, just like I am against any Palestinian desire to genocide the Israeli people. I have always and will always believe in a peaceful two-state solution in which Israel and Palestine learn to cooperate, respect defined boundaries, enshrine equal rights for minorities, and run their nations in a democratic and secular fashion instead of a theocratic authoritarian one.
I mean... I get it, dude. It's cool.
I don't have a side in this holy war that has been going on since long before I was born. In fact, both the Israelis and the Palestinians have proven themselves to be barbaric shitheads who are more than happy to violate the norms of war and target innocent civilians in the name of their personal brand of violent genocide.
Like many other people on this website, you simply don't like it when people challenge your oh-so-nuanced "Israeli Jew bad, Palestinian Muslim good" viewpoint by asking for even the most basic thread of evidence to back up your provocative story, and so you get frustrated when the best evidence that you have is that some Palestinian witness claims to have seen an IDF soldier in the general vicinity of the thing happening.
That's fine, I guess. I'm still going to ask to see the receipts when people make outlandish claims.
Israel's occupation and Blockade has been throttling the food available to Palestinians in Gaza to below what's needed for decades. The full blockade and famine is simply an extension of a longstanding practice.
One of the over 500 instances of Israeli incitement of genocide
Israel also arbitrarily limits how far Palestinians can fish in the sea and shoot them on sight. Gaza fisherfolk can only ‘dream of fishing freely’ under Israel’s blockade
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
Page 402
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the 'disengagement' in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of 'dual-use' Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
Thank you for posting these, can't say I'm surprised to see Zionist libs peddling propaganda on Lemmy
What makes that person a "lib"? Seems like you just want to associate a group of people you don't like with Zionism.
Don't do that.
I'm a secular atheist democratic libertarian socialist. Very little of that factors into my view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Face it. You guys are just being pissy because I asked for the receipts, and it turns out you don't have them.
Frankly, at this point I'm starting to think that many of you guys don't even know what a fucking "zionist" is. It's just become a mantra and a meme to some of you guys.
Imagine being this fragile and butthurt when someone asks if there is evidence behind a claim...
Believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to join the holy war and believe in the Torah or the prophet Muhammad then that's your own [bad] choice. As for me, I'm still going to choose to believe in objective facts.