at what point did i suggest rolling back rights for anyone?

When you said we should accept our removal from sports, and that we should be open to exclusion from the ability to use bathrooms in public.

As I said though, this conversation is an example of why you don't see the behaviour you're asking for. It's because the responses always look like yours.

there is no suggestion being made here

Yes there is. I asked you what you think compromise looks like in real world terms

You replied with this

So a specific compromise would be when someone says that they accept transwomen as people deserving of respect and dignity, but i dont think they should be allowed to compete in professional sports as women, you dont call them a bigot or refuse to engage with them. Its saying "could you think of a way to esure womens safety that doesnt assume all trans people are sexual predators? " when they say women should be able to feel safe in locker rooms.

That is quite explicitly a suggestion. Or rather, two suggestions.

In this suggestion, you use the word "women" as if it doesn't apply to trans women. ie, you say "women's safety" when you clearly means cis women's safety. Dangerous, because it normalises the attack on trans women that they aren't women. And dangerous because it implies that trans women are a risk to cis women, when in fact, trans women are more at risk of sexual assault and violence than cis women are! There is danger here, but it's not coming from the trans women, and framing it as if it is, and as if that is something that should be compromised on is dangerous to trans people.

There is no compromise, when that compromise involves having our safety ignored, and our rights rolled back. That's not compromise.

That's because your client is caching it.

Your statement seems to imply you think i disagree with you

You do. You are suggesting that trans people should offer to exclude themselves and give up our rights, because demanding equality is too much.

I am expressing concern about how other peoples actions will cause more negative pushback

Giving up some of our rights, rights that everyone else has, to appease the folk who enjoy those rights, when we are the ones more at risk of violence, and exclusion is not a viable middle ground like you seem to be implying it is.

Your framing of that as "all or nothing" means I very much disagree with you. You may think trans folk deserve rights and dignity, but you don't believe trans people deserve the same rights as cis people

Also, based on some messages I got from users

No, it's not.

Let me ask you a question. Is teaching a kid to repress and hide who they are for the sake of other people something you want to teach them? Especially if they're queer themselves? 'cause that's what hiding yourself teaches them.

"I think people should have respect" isn't something you can say when the thing that follows is a list of arguments to exclude those very same people.

Even your framing highlights why trans folk are so frustrated. You talk about women's safety, as if trans women aren't part of that discussion, and on top of that, you completely brush over the fact that trans women are even more likely to be victims of violence and sexual assault than cis women.

And your response is that trans folk should just be OK with that, they should just compromise by accepting that their needs are viewed as less important than the needs of cis folk, and just silently accept exclusion.

The truth is, rights are won through social push back and confrontation. They are fought for, because they don't just get handed over otherwise. Especially when there is political capital in exclusion.

I'm also going to highlight that despite engaging with you in good faith, you almost certainly haven't become more accepting, and in fact have most likely become more entrenched in your position as you consider comebacks to my points.

That's why

Not quite. I grew up with a lot of racism that took time to undo and is still ongoing.

But that didn't impact my kiddo directly as they're not targetted by racism.

However, I found out that I'm adhd due to my kid being diagnosed, and I was out as queer before them. So we have intersections in common that we've both been working through at the same time.

That didn't answer the question you replied to, and didn't actually say anything. What does that all look like in real world terms in your mind? How does this "compromise" manifest? I'm guessing that it involves putting trans folk in harms way...

i love Cachy! The performance tweaks are nice, but what I really like is the Cachy repositories and how quickly they're updated, and how useful they are!

They bring death to your garden! They love digging up mulch, leaf litter, bark chips, exposed soil!

The opposite happened to me when I transitioned. When I was perceived as a guy, if I was in a meeting, people didn't instantly fall silent if I spoke, but if they tried to overtalk me and I just kept speaking, they would eventually give way. I transitioned 8 years ago, and from the earliest days of my transition until now, if someone starts overtalking me, they will just keep doing it even if I don't stop talking. The only way to stop them is to vocally call them out and ask them to be quiet until I'm finished.

Similarly, I used to be seen as one of the two "tech guys". The person that people would come up to and ask for tech advice to avoid calling the internal helpdesk. After I transitioned, they started coming up to me and asking me where the other tech guy is.

My career has stalled since I came out. I'm in a trans inclusive country, in a trans inclusive workplace, and I transitioned so long ago, that most people don't know that I'm trans or simply forget. But since coming out, the various shoulder taps in to project opportunities and the like just don't happen anymore.

Maybe people went silent because they were fascinated by or fixated on the unusual timbre of the OP’s transitioned vocal cords.

It's a nice theory, but it's somewhat strange how my own experience as a trans person transitioning from male to female had the opposite impact. Did people start overtalking me because they were fascinated by my timbre?

Additionally, OP was in the same department for years and then transitioned. So, naturally people would approach a more experienced person for help or advice regardless of perceived sex if they knew that person was there longer than them.

Again, it's a nice theory, but in my case, they stopped approaching me. And even the ones who don't know that I'm trans don't approach me that way, because I'm not seen as one of the "tech folk" anymore, despite not losing my experience when I transitioned.

but OP seems to be using the worst possible anecdotes

Similarly, you are using the least likely possibilities that contradict the first hand experience of folk directly in these scenarios to fit your pre-conceived notion of what is happening.

Yeah, the OPs post and mine are anecdotal, so you shouldn't take either of our experiences as universal truths. But your takes aren't even anecdotal. They're suppositions.

It's down to the way they are formed. Basically, once gravity starts winning in the internal forces within a star, it collapses on itself. At that point, it's made up of protons, neutrons and electrons, like most visible matter. However, if the star is large enough, the force from the gravity compresses the atoms so much that the protons and electrons get forced together. And the tl;dr version is that when this happens, their charge cancels out, and you get more neutrons.