As a lifelong democrat, I find this to be very dangerous rhetoric. It sounds tonedeaf. Regardless of the candidate, being critical of politicians is a cornerstone of democracy.
I understand it's important to be a united front, but the need to seemingly bring dissenting voices into line is not a good way to do it. We cannot force people to say we have a perfect candidate for the sake of avoiding discussion.
Edit: a word
We cannot force people to say we have a perfect candidate for the sake of avoiding discussion.
They seem to believe if something isn't discussed, the other side won't notice and / or discuss it either. That's delusional.
I disagree that's what's happening here. He's saying that you can be disappointed with Biden all you want, but not voting for him means we get trump and Project 2025 and fascism.
I don't know a single person that is stoked on Biden, but he's all we have right now. And we cannot let Trump get a second term.
Unfortunately, that’s not what Fetterman is saying.
Fetterman noted during an interview an uptick in Democrats who have become more critical of Biden lately, and said it’s only helping former President Trump.
“I don’t understand why,” Fetterman said, speaking on “Morning Joe” on MSNBC. “I don’t know what’s in it for you to do that whether you’re just chasing clout or you want to make it in the news or anything like that. But if you’re not willing to just support the president now and say these kinds of things, you might as well just get your MAGA hat, because you now are helping Trump with this.”
He’s addressing other Democratic politicians, whom would probably be one of the last groups to not vote for Biden. He seems to think that Biden would fare better in November if Dems outright refuse to acknowledge the realities of unprecedented homelessness, Israeli war money, or being 81 years old. (Because forcing people to look to Republicans for a dissenting opinion on these subjects is a great idea.)
You should vote for Biden if you don’t want Trump, obviously. And vote for Fetterman over whomever if you don’t want whomever. But either Fetterman severely misspoke here, or his opinion goes way beyond that, and I can’t help but lose a lot of respect I had for him.
It's news when the democrats say there's no appropriate time to critique democrats
It should be news when someone calls himself progressive for years and as soon as he gets to congress he starts ranting about how much it pisses him off everyone thinks he's progressive.
Asshole pulled a Sinema and the most annoying part is everyone defending him because he wears a hoodie.
I hope it's more due to the fact that he had a stroke rather than he's doing it intentionally. Either way he has had a complete shift in personality and its disappointing to no end that he's not who he was when elected.
I'm not worried about Biden's age mostly because I think this comes from the racist fear that Kamala Harris isn't capable of running this country.
I think we’re worried about biden’s age less because we’re worried he’ll die in office and more because we’re worried he won’t and will keep running the country as his mind deteriorates beyond the point he should be running a bingo game.
I'm far more confident of Biden surrounding himself with capable stewards, than Trump. So even if the worst happens and he stays alive but loses it like Reagan, he will at least have intelligent, relatively progressive people behind the scenes making the actual decisions.
With sundowning narcissist Trump at the wheel? Buckle the fuck in, because it's going to be a wild ride. I wouldn't worry about having to vote at the federal level again, so at least it'll help with that decision.
I really wish I could joke about this, but if Trump becomes president again, things are going to get very very dark.
Yeah, I've known a couple family members who had a stroke and became better people.
Sometimes it works the other way.
Personality changes arent a rare after effect, it's pretty common.
there’s no appropriate time
Biden's been in office for more than 3 years. But all the complaints get drummed out during election season. I wonder who's pushing them...
You've had your head in the sand if you haven't been hearing people complain about Biden for nearly 4 years.
I have. But it seems to have been ramping up lately. And criticisms of things in the past now are not being done for anything but to tank the election.
Dude, it's primary season now. It's precisely the time when you should be criticizing someone.
I mean, I'm still voting for Biden over any of the Nazis on the red team, but the whole funding-a-genocide-on-gaza thing is going to make it a pretty unenthused vote.
I really wish I could vote for someone on a basis other than lesser evil.
I really wish I could vote for someone on a basis other than lesser evil.
Down-ballot exists! That's where I'm most enthusiastic about voting. There might be some places where it's just lesser evil option in some down-ballots, unfortunately, but you're more likely to have a representative that represents voters within the down-ballot which makes lesser evil choice less likely.
If valid criticism of a candidate causes someone to decide not to vote for them, then so be it. That's how democracy is supposed to work. What's important is that people vote for who they want to lead them, period.
Funny how demanding unquestioned loyalty is a MAGA cultist quality.
Hey, I’m gonna be honest: his enormous about-face of political ideology (“I no longer identify as a progressive”, when, you know, him being a progressive before was a big part of why he got elected) and obvious personality changes make me extremely suspicious that his stroke permanently affected his brain in some pretty serious ways.
That’s not a derogatory comment. That’s just an observation, and strokes can absolutely have that effect on someone.
Regardless of Fetterman's ideology or any stated or perceived shift, he's a pragmatist and straight-shooter above everything else. He was that way long before the stroke. The fact that a lifetime grifter and department store rapist with 91 felony indictment counts has a good chance of winning the election is absurd. A bag of rocks running against Trump should win. Biden and the Democrats are in a very weak position, but it's clear that Biden is the chosen candidate. It makes no sense at this point to have Democrats amplifying GOP talking points, unless they're in any position of power with the DNC to change what is inevitable right now with the Democratic nomination.
I'm in PA and I doubt his progressiveness got him elected. Anyone with a D after their name carries Philly and Pittsburgh by default. Fetterman's no nonsense approach and the fact that the working class can relate to him got votes in Pennsyltuckey, a segment the Democrats have been losing over the years. Democrats should be in a lab right now trying to figure out how to clone Fetterman.
I'm sure I'll be labeled a Fetterman fan boy, but I'm a 50-something 30+ year Democrat that has seen Democrats do a really good job at losing elections and letting the GOP walk all over them. Fetterman no doubt has a cult-like following, but the DNC powers that be should be examining why that is.
makes no sense at this point to have Democrats amplifying GOP talking points, unless they're in any position of power with the DNC to change what is inevitable right now with the Democratic nomination.
That's a bunch of horse shit. Self criticism is the only thing keeping Democrats from becoming a clone of the GOP.
Anyone telling me I can't participate in discourse involving totally valid criticisms about any politician can go kick rocks.
Also, how is discussing his drastic turn towards conservative politics "amplifying GOP talking points"?
Democrats should be in a lab right now trying to figure out how to clone Fetterman.
Ahh yeah, America surely needs more brain damages politicians advocating for genocide...
50-something 30+ year Democrat that has seen Democrats do a really good job at losing elections and letting the GOP walk all over them.
Maybe because your generations idea of a progressive is John Fetterman? Maybe because Democrats have just become the GOP from the 90s, and thats not typically what actual progressives want?
has a cult-like following, but the DNC powers that be should be examining why that is.
I'm not sure if that's still true. Fetterman had a cult like following because he primarily ran on labour, something he was actually progressive about. I don't think it's super common to be progressive on labour but an insane reactionary when if comes to everything else.
he’s a pragmatist and straight-shooter
Is he? This doesn't look like someone particularly concerned with pragmatism to me.
'Get your MAGA hat'
He's got it backward and needs to look in the mirror.
i.e.,
There are people who defend Trump, no matter what.
and
There are people who defend Biden, no matter what.
Sure, but we also have to realize that we live in a country with a two-party system and a winner-take-all electoral college. If you're not helping your candidate, you're helping the opponent.
Fetterman noted during an interview an uptick in Democrats who have become more critical of Biden lately, and said it’s only helping former President Trump.
If it were closer to the election, I would definitely agree, and maybe it is too close now, although I don't think so... if it is not too close, then Biden should be criticized by Democrats who have their ear to the ground to move him towards supporting more popular policies.
I’m still on the fence about whether I can stomach knowing that I voted for the genocidal monster that can barely remember his name because he’s better than the fascist genocidal monster that wants to end whatever semblance of democracy we might have. This country is just the worst.
But he's the lesser of two evils! Doesn't that get you motivated to get to the polls on November? Lesser!
WOULD YOU RATHER eat a chocolate bar off a public toilet seats lid.
OR WOULD YOU RATHER Eat a chocolate bar out of a public toilet bowl.
It could be worse. We could have a dictator that regulates literally everything we do. My porn is anonymous for now.
He's not entirely wrong. I've been critical of Biden myself, but it is because I am concerned about Biden's ability to beat Trump. I want Biden to be a stronger candidate, and a stronger leader for that matter. Criticizing Biden is the best way I know to make him to better than he's doing now. Poking holes in candidates is my love language.
But I'm a nobody. I don't make headlines when I point out his flaws. Maybe somebody somewhere will read something I wrote, or at a minimum it becomes part of the rising din of concern, and Biden is forced to make an effort to speak to my concerns. That's the best I can hope for.
I'm not backing an alternative candidate. I'm not calling for him to step aside or resign. I'm not suggesting we all throw our votes away on some long shot third party candidate. Anybody who is doing those things is helping Trump. And it's hard not to think that they don't know they are helping Trump, which makes it hard not to think that their intent is to help Trump.
So while I think Fetterman ought to be more specific with his criticism of critics, I don't disagree that there are people who fit his accusation. I also think there are far more reasonable progressives and moderates who have voiced legitimate concerns that Biden should do well to hear. Hillary ignored many of those same criticisms, to the peril of all Americans. America would be a much better place if Democrats tried harder to be more than just the lesser bad option. "At least we're not traitorous rapists" isn't a campaign slogan that inspires confidence.
It's a primary. Vote for whoever you want.
Always vote for whoever you want. That's how voting works.
But know what you're voting for. Know who you're voting for. Our electoral system is inherently flawed.
Voting for some schmuck running against Biden in the primary might make you feel good about protesting one or more of Biden's policies. His support of Israel, his approach to border policies, his inaction on any number of progressive issues, whatever the objection, who else are you going to vote for? I know there is the pro-Palestine contingent in Michigan promoting a "none of the above" campaign, which is effective at registering your complaint.
But in the general election, it's time to put away such petty animus and defeat the orange monster that will destroy everything.
Fuck you, Fetterman.
What a fucking disappointment this guy is turning out to be compared to all the love he got on his campaign. Not that I'd prefer Oz by any means, but it's still pretty crushing.
I'm increasingly sure that the rising tide of never-Biden-ers is going to send Trump back into the White House. People need to be pragmatic and strategic about their voting and encourage others to do the same. So I understand WHY he felt a need to say stupid shit like this.
But if you're not allowed to criticize Biden without being banished to Siberia, then he's actually insufficiently different from Trump.
I'd bet Biden would not agree with Fetterman's message. He's not a whiny little thin-skinned gremlin the way Trump is. Based on his political career, he can even update platforms and change policy based on that feedback. So yeah, lay down the criticism to him re: Israel, he deserves it, and enough voices might actually change the foreign policy here. Do not tell the critics their votes aren't welcome. Their votes are still needed. And hopefully they're smart enough to know that NOT voting for Biden will create even worse outcomes, even while they continue clearly and loudly speaking up.
I’ve said this before and got downvoted but I’ll say it again. I will not tell a Muslim person or a Palestinian that they should hold their nose and vote for Biden. If the guy in charge is actively supporting a genocide and is providing the weapons that are killing your family, friend’s family, or just someone with your same religious beliefs, I don’t think we have the right to tell them they are wrong to abstain from voting for the pro genocide of their people guy. If a president was actively supporting the Nazis in killing my people, I would not have voted for that president.
It is the candidates responsibility to listen to his constituents. Not be finger wagged into voting them.
Listen, Coach Fetterman: We love your size and bombastic past but "if you aren't for us you are against us" is not the type of faux populism that is needed in 2024.
The “I’m a progressive until I’m voted into office” guy?! Nah fuck him
Sen. John Fetterman (D-Pa.) panned Democrats who are upping their criticisms of President Biden ahead of the November election, saying they might as well don a “MAGA hat.”
Fetterman noted during an interview an uptick in Democrats who have become more critical of Biden lately, and said it’s only helping former President Trump.
Democracy! No longer allowed to question or criticize our politicians.
That's a dishonest way to look at what he said. An honest one would be that he has just as much right to criticize Democrats offering aid to Trump as the Democrats offering aid to Trump have a right to criticize Biden.
Biden: [Does things]
Anti-Biden Democrats: [He shouldn't be doing that.]
Fetterman: [They shouldn't be doing that.]
You: [Fetterman is anti-democracy and pro-censorship.]
This is just pure clownishness.
Context is key, and you've broken down the situation to the point of absurdity.
I mean, what's his point we should never bitch about it when Biden does shit we don't like? I have a novel idea, maybe he should start focusing on public approval instead of you demanding that the public blindly approve of everything he does.
Yeah, I'm going to vote for him because the alternative is a bad fucking idea.
His criticism isn't out of left field He's earned this shit. It's not that he's an irredeemable president, but a significant amount of his campaign is not being Trump. And still we hope all the hell that that's enough.
If the criticism only comes up now, it's not real criticism. It's astro-turfing for Trump. We've had 4 years of Biden but the amount of Biden criticism I've seen lately has risen sharply. Sure, criticize the things he's done lately, but I've seen stuff from years ago.
There's no point in that unless you're trying to tank his chances against Trump.
Progressives who would rather primary a nobody who will absolutely fail to get non-progressive votes and lose to Trump are unhinged or failed gradeschool civics. It's just stupidity or worse: Trump propaganda.
This guy turned heel pretty quickly.
he thinks people criticizing biden should vote for trump? i don't think that's going to work out the way he hopes.
no. its that a tacit non-democratic vote is a vote for fascism. while true, doesnt mean we cant blame the DNC and Biden for refusing to run a defend-able candidate.
Fuck the DNC and how they shit all over america, putting us in this position.
Supreme Leader is above criticism, and to believe otherwise means you're the one in a cult.
Eat shit Fetterman.
This is the guy (whom I proudly voted for) who was getting defensive because people didn't think he was as progressive as they were led to believe. The people criticizing Biden and Fetterman are typically liberals and progressives, not MAGA.
I think Joe Biden is grossly under-appreciated for what he's accomplished thus far. He's legit incredible (imo). He's also old as shit and I reject the idea that he's the only American citizen capable of running the country as well as he has for three years. Dude, take the W and GTFO.
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