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submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by blueberry@diagonlemmy.social to c/fediverse@lemmy.world
  1. Harry Potter Fandoms will be a part of the Fediverse one way or the other. It’s better to shape this development rather than being overwhelmed by it.
  2. Harry Potter Fandoms are a huge opportunity for the Fediverse. Look at what the collaboration of Lego and Disney brought to Fortnite. People want to spend time in places, in which they feel familiar and welcomed. I'm not saying collaborating with big companies here, what I'm saying is: the Fediverse needs to be filled with life and we have to use that opportunity first, before others do.
  3. Don't throw the opinions of J.K. Rowling and its fandom in one bucket. It’s one of the biggest in the world, there is a broad range of opinions and people.
  4. The Fediverse needs more projects that immediately make sense to people. Projects that you tell a person about, and they say: "Oh, yeah, that makes sense." Mastodon in comparison to Twitter was such a thing: its billionaire proof. Everybody gets why that's a good thing. A better, more open place to build Harry Potter fan sites could be another.
  5. The project (including other places like this that may follow) could also become another attractive place on the Fediverse for the open-source community. Who wouldn’t be excited to help build the world of Harry Potter?

All of this is of course up for discussion. I'm a very stubborn person but I'm also able to listen ;)

Edit: I removed "queer friendly" from the description. Its not a claim that I can fully uphold anyways. Instead, it has a no tolerancy policy against transphobia, which is more clear and probably easier to enforce.

Here is the link: https://diagonlemmy.social

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[-] Chozo@kbin.social 88 points 9 months ago

Man, the gatekeeping is wild these days.

You're allowed to like a story you grew up with as a child and also dislike its bigot author, they're not mutually exclusive. Talking about Harry Potter doesn't give Rowling magical transphobe powers; Voldemort logic doesn't work in real life. The rightsholders have already taken great strides to distance the HP property from Rowling and adopt it to be more inclusive in spite of her TERF bullshit. It's not a hate crime to like a story about child wizards anymore.

If people want to geek out about some books or movies they like, they should be allowed to do so without the insinuation that they're by default enabling transphobia or something. But the beauty of the Fediverse is that your community has just as much right to exist as any other, so as long as you can maintain a healthy, hate-free community that isn't posting a bunch of pro-Rowling bullshit, I say go for it. Anyone who would block your instance for merely existing probably isn't worth your time, anyway.

[-] z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Let me pose a hypothetical to you then. If the transphobic rhetoric of JKR escalated, and transphobes took action, like just started doing even more harm to the trans community than they already have. At what point would you say "you know what, I've had enough of HP. It's just distasteful to engage with this anymore".

Let's say a trans person enters, participates, and becomes a part of your HP fan community. What if they are directly, or even indirectly, harmed by JKR's transphobic rhetoric? If you continue to engage with how great the content is, while ignoring what just happened, was that trans person, who was harmed, ever really part of your community? Or were you just paying lip service to your community's inclusivity?

These hypotheticals can happen, it's not even remotely outside the realm of possibility. At what point is engaging in HP fandom distasteful?

[-] Chozo@kbin.social 24 points 9 months ago

At what point is engaging in HP fandom distasteful?

I'd say when the material that makes up the HP franchise, itself, becomes distasteful. I'm not hugely invested into HP, but last I've seen of it, the franchise is LGBT-inclusive, directly in spite of Rowling. I see no reason why one shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the story.

Yeah, Rowling may still profit from it. But the bitter pill is that she's allowed to. People are entitled to make money from their IPs, it's how society enables creatives. Just because somebody's a shit person doesn't mean they're not allowed to earn a living. And realistically, she's going to make money from it, anyway. Blocking a Lemmy instance has literally zero impact on Rowling's bottom line, making the act little more than posturing.

The HP material, itself, is fine. And the HP community largely seems inclusive toward LGBT fans. I can't think of any reason to consider liking it or talking about it to be distasteful. Rowling's a TERF shitbag, and I think most of the HP community is generally onboard with that notion, too.

[-] nforminvasion@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

Idk the slavery, the goblins, the blatant love of all the worst parts of 19th century high British society... The world is pretty wild.

And she doesn't really set those things up to challenge them in the books, you're just supposed to accept that they're there and be fine with them.

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[-] technomad@slrpnk.net 12 points 9 months ago

I feel like most of what you said there can just be directly copy-pasted to the sidebar.

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[-] yildolw@lemmy.world 40 points 9 months ago

Divorcing the author from the work is rather challenging when that author is a living billionaire who makes money whenever you buy any kind of merchandise of their work. While pirating their trademarks without paying is in principle harmless, the moment you cross over into, say, paying money for Harry Potter Lego or Harry Potter Fortnite skins, you are then immediately funding the author's hate campaigns

The instance name is clever, but I think you will find the concept embarrassing in hindsight. I would recommend not doubling down on the cognitive dissonance

[-] Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website 13 points 9 months ago

People don't seem to realize that their consumption of a product is seen by its beneficiaries.

Sure not YOU directly, but when someone sees "oh this place also set up something dedicated solely to the thing I made, they must really like me and approve of the things I do/say!" and others who agree with their shitty views think "oh they agree too, otherwise why promote it?"

Is it possible to separate the creatOR from the creatION? Yes. But not for everyone, and many of those who can't will see your support as support of their own shitty ideals that match the creators'.

Sure, you may not be antisemitic, but the country club you go to for lunch sure is. Go ahead and pretend you're not supporting them I guess.

[-] blueberry@diagonlemmy.social 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Is it possible to separate the creatOR from the creatION? Yes. But not for everyone, and many of those who can’t will see your support as support of their own shitty ideals that match the creators’.

If it would be that easy, yes. But you ignore that H.P. does have a cultural value to it. Now you could try to re-build this, but first of all: it will be pretty hard to come up with something that no one feels offended by. And second of all: it will be pretty hard to come up with something that is equally popular.

For me, this is about post-structuralism vs. structuarlism. The current zeigeist is all about "deconstruction", but if you de-construct everything, you are left with nothing. You need to build something new and that structure will always leave some room to deconstruct.

So I'm for leaving some of these cultural structures even if they are in parts worth overcoming. In case of the social web, which the Fediverse tries to create: it will not work without some kind of cultural structure on which it is build. People don't want to spent time in a non-place, the Metaverse already failed because of that (at least its first try).

Post-structuralism is bad. Its anti-liberal and currently a big problem on the left imo.

[-] melmi 9 points 9 months ago

I love to be able to reclaim works from their hateful authors, especially cultural ones. I'm a big fan of Lovecraft, and that dude was hateful. He makes JK Rowling look sweet and kindly. But it's a lot easier to reclaim the narrative and make it a part of our culture when the author is literally dead.

Lovecraft is a cornerstone of modern fiction, despite being a bigot. We can acknowledge how he was a terrible person, even analyze it, but we know that our enjoyment of Lovecraftian fiction isn't benefiting Lovecraft's hateful causes, especially because the work is public domain.

In contrast, JK Rowling is not only still alive, she is active and vocal about her hatred, how she spends her money towards hate, and how she considers support of Harry Potter in light of her hate to be support of her vile views.

Consumption of media is not a passive action. Even if you do not actively give any money to the franchise, promoting the franchise encourages other people to do so, and then their money goes to fund hate.

I understand that HP is important to a lot of people. It was a cultural phenomenon. But we aren't leaving it behind just because JK Rowling said something offensive. We're leaving it behind because the author is actively using our consumption to fund hate and campaigning to deny rights to trans people.

There are plenty of other forms of media, new and old, that aren't being piloted by known bigots. If you want a cultural backbone, using one that is currently controlled by a bigot will probably make a lot of trans people feel unwelcome at best and at worst, if HP continues to be a cultural phenomenon on a large scale JK Rowling will use the platform and the money to further the oppression of transgender rights.

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[-] cupcakezealot 38 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

love this! i'm trans and honestly harry potter was such a big reason why i'm still here. it was one of the only things i loved when i was still in the closet and between starkid, leaky, and pottercast, it resulted in making some amazing friends. fuck rowling but i'll never forget harry potter <3

harry potter is the trio and the fandom not the author

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[-] Blaze@reddthat.com 37 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Well, as always I'll recommend our small existing community !harrypotter@literature.cafe

Literature.cafe is a lovely instance, Gabe the admin is a very nice person.

Good luck with your instance, I'll probably visit

[-] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

direct comm subscribe link !harrypotter@literature.cafe

fyi, Mbin now can utilize the standard ! format

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[-] oleorun@real.lemmy.fan 33 points 9 months ago

The crass may say "don't hate the player, hate the game", but a more accurate way to get the point across is that one can indeed separate the content from the creator and should not be judged for it.

Jewish people can watch Disney movies and not have to consider that Walt Disney was a huge anti-semite and a terrible human being.

People use Linux and don't even care that Torvolds is no stranger to controversy himself.

It's OK to like a story and not like the person who wrote it.

[-] z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 30 points 9 months ago

I'm sorry, but as a cis heterosexual man who has trans friends and has turned away from all things Harry Potter and JK Rowling in utter disgust, this strikes me as attempting to ignore the obvious transphobia of the TERF author in the hope of keeping your head in the sand and residing in a place of nostalgia solely because transgendered people aren't the majority.

I get your desire to grow the Fediverse, but if you want to create a community around a fandom, perhaps you should choose a piece of media that embraces inclusion rather than one that is simply popular?

Stop looking into your past fandoms with nostalgic rose tinted glasses, acknowledge that you can't have Hogwartz without the hatred, and find media that is straight up more inclusive.

[-] stsquad@lemmy.ml 16 points 9 months ago

If you limit yourself to media created only by authors that past your particular purity test your going to have a very narrow view of the world. There is a reason the HP fandom is popular and I don't think it's because it's because it's made up of budding transphobes.

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[-] ada 11 points 9 months ago
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[-] TeryVeneno@lemmy.ml 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Honestly, it’s not even about JK Rowling, the actual Harry Potter series has very poor values in general, and the world is quite poorly written. Not something I’d want to promote to other people or children regardless of Rowling’s nonsense. The books turned me off very much as a kid though the movies are much more palatable. It’s just a really mean series.

[-] ada 18 points 9 months ago

When you say "queer friendly", are you, the admin of the instance, gender diverse and thus directly impacted by Rowling's transphobia? Because that's the only voice that I'm open to hearing "queer friendly" from when it comes to Potter and Rowling.

If you're not impacted by her bigotry, you have no place claiming that it's queer friendly, whilst actively refusing to engage with the reality of her transphobia.

[-] blueberry@diagonlemmy.social 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

When you say “queer friendly”, are you, the admin of the instance, gender diverse and thus directly impacted by Rowling’s transphobia?

No, I'm not. With "queer friendly" I wanted to signal my good intentions here. I don't want to call it a safe space, because I'm not able and also not willing to provide this. Possibly in the future there will be other H.P. instances that are also safe(r) spaces.

So yeah, "queer friendly" is more like a ideal/commitment that I want to try to hold rather than a promise/claim. Or that what was I tried to do here.

If you have a different phrase that could reflect this more accuratly, I will be happy to consider it.

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[-] HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Their rules post also doesn't say ~~anything about transphobic content whatsoever~~ they see the fandom as not inherently sharing the creators views

[-] Chozo@kbin.social 12 points 9 months ago

Why lie about something that we all can easily verify for ourselves?

Rule 1: Before using the website, remember you will be interacting with actual, real people and communities. DiagonLemmy.Social is not a place for you to attack other groups of people. Every one of our users has a right to browse and interact with the website and all of its contents free of treatment such as harassment, bullying, racism, antisemitism, discrimination, transphobia, hate speech, violation of privacy or threats of violence.

https://diagonlemmy.social/post/108

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[-] ada 17 points 9 months ago

The responses in this thread highlight my point. If you don't have explicit rules to stop that shit in its tracks (which you don't), you aren't queer friendly, because queer folk can't exist there without being told that transphobia is fine actually, as long as you like the person doing it.

[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 17 points 9 months ago

I'm neither an HP fan nor queer so take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt.

I think that the idea is mostly good, but don't underestimate the amount of work necessary to keep your instance safe. Make sure to have admins online 24/7, that they're all on the same page regarding rule enforcement, consult often the queer community on stuff that matters, and make sure that it's part of your admin team.

The main thing that I believe that you need to watch out for is users lacking discernment. They'll come in two "flavours": the ones trying to sell JK Rowling's transphobia, and the ones trying to sell hate against the fanbase.

Also, I'm not sure but I think that "no tolerance towards transphobia" sounds easier to enforce than "queer-friendly". The goal is the same, the difference is less subjectivity. (In general it's better to approach rules and their enforcement as objectively as possible.)

[-] blueberry@diagonlemmy.social 10 points 9 months ago

Thanks for the tips, they are very helpful.

I think I will exclude "queer friendly" again. It raises some false promises that I think I cannot hold. I like the term “no tolerance towards transphobia”.

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[-] _edge@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 9 months ago

Sounds cool. I'm not a Harry Potter fan and certainly no fan of Rowling, but I'm really surprised that this is controversal.

How do you explain the Fediverse? You can find an instance you like. Harry Potter people can have theirs.

[-] HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 16 points 9 months ago

Look at what the collaboration of Lego and Disney brought to Fortnite.

I'm not sure if this is the example you want to follow

[-] ludrol@bookwormstory.social 15 points 9 months ago

Hey, Good Luck with your endeavors. Beware of mob brigading and "canceling" you. There is already !harrypotter@literature.cafe Make sure you have at least one or two moderators with additional technical sysadmin that will keep the instance up.

I think the biggest challenge at the start will be keeping community alive. I know from experience that if you are the only person posting it is disheartening, and it leads to very fast burnout.

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[-] blueberry@diagonlemmy.social 14 points 9 months ago

Did this even went through?

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[-] lstwndr 13 points 9 months ago
[-] ombremad 12 points 9 months ago

I personally think it’s a very bad idea and politics will catch up on you eventually. But whatever floats your boat.

[-] dubbel@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 9 months ago

I think this is a good idea and wish you all the best.

Moderation will be key of course, but the rules ( http://diagonlemmy.social/post/108 ) sound good.

At the same time, if somebody doesn't even want to think about HP, they can easily block the entire instance, no harm no foul.

[-] inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

it has a no tolerancy policy against transphobia

Does this include discussion of Rowlings current work like Bad Blood?

I ask because it gets to the core of why "separate art from artist" can't apply when you are promoting the works of active bigots. Reading Poe or Seuss harms no one, but starting a community to promote upcoming projects from a bigots, such as the TV show or the games.

It feels HP fans want to have their cake and eat it to, you can't be a trans ally AND be promoting the works of someone who uses that capital to actively harm trans folk. Which is why so many trans people are asking you to stop.

[-] blueberry@diagonlemmy.social 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Its H.P. themed not Rowling themed. If they want to talk about Bad Blood in the literature section, sure. Like on all other literature instances, too. If its explicitly transphobic, its not.

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this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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