I don't like the framing in this meme. “Wayland doesn't run on Nvidia” implies that it's a Wayland problem, but it's actually Nvidia that fails to develop a modern, working driver.
That still sounds like a Wayland problem, just not one that they have control of
It is an Nvidia problem. And we need to insist on Nvidia being the problem until they give in. Their lack of wanting to take responsibility for distributing graphics cards on the market by not developing working drivers and not even letting the community fix it by open sourcing their driver is not something we should tolerate anymore. They pissed people enough at this point over the years, with their lack of participation in an driver problem-free environment on Linux, so they should and they will take the blame.
Look, the people over at Wayland made a solid protocol, sure. But for all the time and effort they've put into getting it to the state it's in today, it's going to take a long while for all the apps, DEs, and TWMs to be ready. It took so long for the Linux desktop to get to the state it is on X11, which, for all it's flaws, seems to be easier to develop for than Wayland.
Wacom Drivers, Nvidia Drivers, DE-Agnostic screensharing, screenshot, eyedropper tools are all in various states of not working/sort of working/working on wayland. This simply isn't the case with X11. They all just work. That's kind of a big win for X11 over Wayland.
It doesn't matter how light weight and more secure your protocol is if you can't use the tools you need to get the jobs you need done, whatever those jobs are. That is literally what computers are for at the end of the day, not to lord our superiority over others because our choice of tools are somehow better.
Yes Wayland is the future, but to say "Wayland is ready" while also saying "many of the apps for Wayland are not ready" ends up meaning that wayland is NOT ready.
Until the transition between X and Wayland is seamless (no adjusting environment variables), saying we should all just move to Wayland cuz ”is the future" are engaging in the same FOMO tactics that crytpo and AI bros have been doing for years. Fuck that noise.
You are not somehow better because you use Wayland. And yeah yeah, shots fired, down votes incoming. Come at me tech daddy.
You are absolutely right, I use Wayland on KDE cause two different refresh rate monitores but duude, even on amd you have some hassles. It is ok if you change some env variables, not OK for the average Joe.
I'm so confused why other people are having so much trouble, I use two computers with AMD GPUs and one with Intel and I haven't had any problems with wayland on Gnome, Plasma, Sway, or Hyprland in the past like two years. The only environment variable I ever changed was the one to make firefox use wayland before that was the default, but that wasn't at all required for the average user, it works fine under xwayland.
GTK, Qt, Firefoxes XUL, Electron (Chromium), Iced, and more support Wayland. You dont develop apps for Wayland, you develop them with a GUI toolkit.
Fair enough. All I know is to get something as simple and necessary to my workflow as using KeePassXC, I had to adjust a few QT flags in my environment variables. No big deal as I actually enjoy configuring my system, but it's in my opinion Wayland will be "ready" when this sort of under the hood tweaking won't be necessary by the user.
Here, I'll pose a simple question that kind of gets at the heart of what I'm talking about. Libreoffice works great on Wayland right? Good, fantastic, kudos to Libreoffice, kudos to Wayland. Now, name me a 2nd office suite that works on Wayland. Just one. This is a genuine question and despite my decent google fu, I can't find a one. I got Open Office to open on Wayland, but it doesn't recognize the entire suite.
Now, this may seem like an unfair argument to make, as there were never many office suites available on Linux to begin with. And there's always been people in the Linux community who will call for more uniformity, but I, like many others, love Linux for it's extreme customizability (amongst other reasons). Wayland severely cuts down on my choices of what TWMs I can use, what DEs are available, and various widely used productivity tools like office suites.
The amount of knots Wayland enthusiasts tie themselves up in to say "but if you just configure this flag, if you just run this through xwayland/game scope, if you just don't use nvidia, then wayland is ready" is just pointing to the fact that it's straight up not.
And that's not the fault of any one entity. Writing a protocol like Wayland is a massive endeavor and is needed. But developers across the board who want to provide support for Linux, are now scrambling to rewrite parts of their applications to conform to this new protocol because yes, they see the writing on the wall (especially with the latest lines in the sand drawn by Red Hat). But isn't the fact that their scrambling to get this accomplished, and convert their apps to Wayland, an indicator that maybe, just maybe, that Wayland as a daily driver for, if not the majority, at least a reasonable part of the Linux community, not ready?
I'm not saying Wayland isn't the future. What I'm saying is until discussions like these are the outlier, not the norm, Wayland isn't ready.
Weird, i feel like I should be getting more errors with how the comment section is making wayland sound, but on my mac 2019 it was honestly plug n play even for sunshine game stream (and supports waydroid which brought me over)
This debate is so fucking stupid. X. Is. Dead.
Install Wayland, file bug reports, help everyone move into the future.
Looks like I'm quitting my job because Wayland is the future asshat. How about I just run both X and Wayland on my computer, file bug reports on what doesn't work with Wayland, and continue to use X until they fix it or you pull your head out of your own ass? Whichever comes first.
No.
I use xfce, I have nvidia card, I sometimes capture a video of my screen and I regularly share my screen. Didn't even try.
I'll use Xorg until its deprecated or Wayland offers me some benefit other than "is new and shiny and the internet told me is cool"
I also became a bit sceptical about it with so many open source projects and basic functionality not supporting it yet after sooo many years of "Wayland is here"... so yeah, I'll wait until someone gets xorg from my dead cold hands 😁
also I don't get how aggressive people get about what other people have in their desktop, dude let me live my linux life alone 🤷♂️
Fair enough. I used XFCE for 15 years and decided to give Hyprland a go. Still some rough edges, and some shockingly basic things are still being figured out (should multiple windows from the same process be able to set different icons, and windows being able to set--or even hint--where they want to go), but overall I've had basically zero issues, and I'm enjoying it enough that I made the change permanent. Screen share and streaming work fine. I wouldn't call the overall functionality mature, but it's perfectly workable. Unless, you know...Nvidia. I've heard it's gotten a bit better lately, but I wouldn't have switched if I hadn't gone AMD for my new GPU.
My Desktop runs wayland on nvidia.... so?!
What I don't like about Wayland is that many things are specific to individual DEs. Like global shortcuts or taking screenshots. In my app I have two different solutions for taking screenshots in GNOME and KDE using XDG portals. It causes fragmentation.
o wow didn't know this. such horrible design decision! So if I understood correctly ALL the apps that want to screenshot need to write independent code for each desktop environment??? I was just mostly ignoring Wayland until becoming mature, but now I actively dislike it with passion.
So, if this is true and I understand correctly, it means that if I chose to use Xfce (as I do), I'll have to hope really hard that zoom, skype, slack, discord... decide to provide support for not only linux,.... but XFCE or give up and abandon XFCE? yeah f*** Wayland, they really didn't think about the open source community when designing their solution. I don't wat to even think of people that use other smaller desktop managers...
I mean, screen sharing is basic functionality these days, in the interview for my current job I needed to use.. I think it was teams. Is not even something you can chose, is bad enough to be exclusive linux user as it is, always wondering if in such cases something will not work.
Honestly, long live Xorg. if deprecated and I have to switch to gnome/kde or lose functionality I might as well switch to windows after 20 something years of not using it.
Screen sharing is different thing, there is no fragmentation there.
But in order to take screenshot I had to write different code:
For KDE. It also requires special line in desktop file for security reasons.
Global shortcuts are even worse. It also DE specific and users have to manually register them in DE settings. In order for your application to support this, it should export such functions via the Dbus interface. And all this incompatible with Windows (my app is cross-platform), so I had to provide in-app interface for global shortcuts too that works for Windows and X11 users.
Screen sharing is still a pain in my experience. I'm a tiling window manager guy. I used i3 for years. Switched to sway, but have issues because xdg-desktop-portal-wlr can't do application sharing, only entire screen sharing. Well I have a ultra ultra wide screen, so people can't see shit on normal monitors when I try to share my screen. So at work, where I regularly have video conferences, I'm constantly changing my screen resolution so that I can screen share something that looks OK to others, but 1980x1024 looks ridiculous on my end on my ultrawide.
Hyperland can share applications and even regions, which is awesome, and I tested it successfully on my home gentoo system, but it only worked on Firefox. Didn't work for my jitsi electron app and didn't work in qutebrowser. And hyperland isn't easily installable on Ubuntu which is what I run for work because my work computer needs to just werk (gentoo is probably even more stable but I can't mess with long complie upgrades at work and some corporate software is only available as .debs)
So yea my life would honestly be easier if I just stuck with i3 everywhere but I'm stubbornly trying to use Wayland because I know it's the future but don't kid yourselves, it is a pain in the ass
I miss Firefox remembering where its windows were when it restarts >_>
Extreme shortage of desktop environments that support Wayland. I don't want to use either Gnome or KDE, I'm currently using LXQt with i3wm.
If you like i3, sway is a drop in replacement for it that uses wayland. I'm not sure if you could make LXQt work with it but it's worth a shot
Something wayland lacks but Xorg has?
Basic functionality. Anyone that actually thinks Wayland is ready either doesn't use it or is just straight coping. Maybe it'll get there, but... honestly, probably not.
Come back to me when I don't need to treat wayland like a bethesda game and install a bunch of mods, plugins, packages, and do a bunch of other crap just to get basic functionality.
Wayland works perfectly for my needs. NVidia, KDE Plasma.
Most things would be solved if mainteners EVER updated their app's electron version or stopped doing custom things with it and just let electron read $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/electron-flags.conf
For like half a second my brain thought this was a meme comparing the fictional megacorps Zorg Industries from "The Fifth Element" and the Weyland-Yutani Corporation from the "Alien" franchise.
wouldnt be so sure. My AMD 780m iGPU has all sorts of weird issues on wayland atm. drivers are hella immature atm
Like, everything?
Guake doesn't work, gnome-screenshot doesn't work, Plank doesn't work...
Most GUI utilities that integrate into the OS of some kind require drawing over apps. It's absurd that Wayland doesn't support this properly for uhhh no reason other than vague claims of improved security and process isolation. If someone's into your system with such a degree of access it's all over anyway.
If I'm not using Gnome, then I'll be using i3 and then I honestly could care less which one, I'll just be using the most compatible one which I think is just xorg. Plasma just sucks I'm so sorry, it's messy.
And I'm sorry but there's no serious work you can do with an AMD GPU either. I wish it wasn't like this but it is, no CUDA no joy.
Wayland is DOA and will never replace Xorg. Deal with it.
This is just misinformed.
Sure your favorite apps may not use it, but Wayland does provide protocols for drawing things over other apps. https://wayland.app/protocols/wlr-layer-shell-unstable-v1
I never used guake with i3 since scratchpads exist and are the general solution, and sway works fine there.
and there's plenty of screenshot apps that work. I haven't tried gnome-screenshot, but I find it hard to believe that it or some alternative gnome one doesn't work given the effort the project has put into Wayland
nvidia support isn't great but it is getting better. I haven't bought nvidia in forever but I know plasma and gnome both say they have support for Wayland on nvidia now.
For gaming amd is great, for real work I'd just rent time on some cloud service lol. If I'm that worried about performance my one consumer gpu isn't going to make a dent either
Wayland is DOA and will never replace Xorg. Deal with it.
I understand some harshness but this statement is just crazy, xorg is already dead feature wise and Wayland is de facto the new protocol, you can say it is not ready but there is no way back.
An easy way to share my screen
How?? There are so many tools for that now, I can even do it in teams
My work uses slack. The screenshare doesn't work with Wayland. Steam link/remote play doesn't work with a Wayland host (at least it hasn't every time i have tried it). For my gaming pc i only switch to X when i want to use the steam link and use Wayland the other 99.99% of the time because in general it is better. For work i exclusively run X. I started with Wayland, but then there were several occasions where i had to logout then login again switching to X just so i could share my screen which was a massive pain. I love Wayland, but i can totally understand people not wanting to switch until the tools they are used to (or are required to use) work properly under Wayland.
nothing puts the fear of god into me like reinstalling nvidia drivers
The situation is rapidly getting better, and I’m daily driving Fedora 38 with 3060Ti using the RPMFusion Nvidia driver and Gnome+Wayland. Everything (and I do mean everything) I’ve tried has all its basic functionality at baseline. Xwayland is a thing and it covers for not having true Wayland support in alot of cases. Not like there aren’t bugs and QOL issues, but from what I’ve seen Nvidia is engaged and working to fix them. We should probably try to critique Nvidia/Wayland based on specific issues now, instead of broad brush “Nvidia/Wayland bad” rhetoric…
I see people having a good to great experience with NVIDIA on Wayland. I lack that ability, I can never get my PC to run well on Wayland. (using the propriety drivers) hoping the new GSP firmware and the improvements to MESA-Nouveau + NVK fixes my issues. even if their are teething pains. because of how unusable it currently just is for me. course if I had the money, the easiest fix to make Linux usable for me is to buy a AMD GPU. FYI, I have a 2070Super. It is a consistently bad experience on it, with the NVIDIA propriety drivers.
I have a weird setup, which is my fault I guess, but it results in me having two keyboards with different languages. And I frequently switch between them in my workflow, so it can be super annoying to manually switch the language every time.
On X I use a combination of two tools to automatically set the language per keyboard, which works even when hotplugging.
On wayland I found no alternative so far, but if you have any ideas, please let me know.
Wayland doesn't like my ivy bridge no gpu lil guy, so x11 best for me
Does ssh -X work with Wayland (either as the sender, receiver, or both) yet?
Wayland runs on Nvidia though
xrandr. afaik, there's no (standard) way to set display resolution from the command line in wayland. also, there's no equivalent of xkill, so in order to kill an unresponsive gui app, you have to grep for its pid in ps, which can get a bit tedious and annoying, especially for programs which spawn multiple processes.
I have an nvidia card and run Wayland with KDE. Other than some bugs and crashes, no other complains
Hint: :q!
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