158
More than 26,000 lethal "mistakes" so far (plus 60,000 non-lethal), and counting...
But hey, everyone makes mistakes right?
You're including both civilian and soldier deaths (which is what Hamas wants you to do, don't help them). Best estimates are now 8-10k Hamas soldiers, 16-18k civilians.
Show me the methodology because that's basically saying 100% of adult male deaths are Hamas soldiers. Smells like bullshit to me. I'd bet the number is closer to 1k than 10k.
Yeah I'm pretty sure this is Israel's methodology for calculating Hamas deaths, 100% of adult men are soldiers. It's obviously a lie but I do believe that's where the number comes from.
You think Israel dropped 25,000 bombs, invaded, and has been waging urban combat for 4 months, but has only killed 1,000 Hamas militants? That's just silly.
Also Hamas uses child soldiers extensively (including as suicide bombers) so you can drop the "adult" part.
Not silly, genocide.
It's just genocide all the way down with you guys
And the totality of Gaza including children is Hamas to you. Say what you need to. I'm not the one defending murdering children, people under a white flag, woman, aid givers, medics, hospital workers and more.
It’s just genocide all the way down with israel you mean
Reminds me of people immediately shouting "GENOCIDE!!!" when the first bombs were dropped on Houthi pirates. It really has lost all meaning and I think that's deliberate. Actual genocides will be much more difficult for people to accept after this ridiculous propaganda campaign, which is something China and Russia in particular, who are pushing narratives like these through their troll armies, are benefiting from.
Reminds me of people immediately shouting "GENOCIDE!!!" when the first bombs were dropped on Houthi pirates
You apparently misunderstood the order of events. The Yemen genocide has been going on for almost a decade and is what likely radicalized some to commit acts of piracy and terrorism.
Not excusing it of course, terrorism is always inexcusable no matter what, just providing context for those like you who thought they just popped up out of nowhere for no reason.
It really has lost all meaning
That's what racists say about the word racism.
No, I've literally seen people say that specifically the American and British bombings of the Houthis were genocide. These same people were completely unaware of the ongoing civil war in Yemen.
That’s what racists say about the word racism.
I get what you mean, but it is a real problem. If you are shouting wolf too many times, at some point, nobody is going to believe you.
If you are shouting wolf too many times, at some point, nobody is going to believe you.
Conversely, it's not a great idea to keep saying lamb when it's actually a wolf. Like you are doing with the Gaza genocide.
If Israel isn't differentiating between civilians and soldiers when they shoot and bomb people, I don't see why I should.
Here here or maybe hear hear? Idk
It doesn't fit your narrative, but the civilian/military casualty numbers are on the high side of normal for urban combat.
Super weird to defend distributing Hamas propaganda. Helping them hurts Palestinians too, who generally don't like Hamas.
Super weird to be defending genocide, too, but here we are.
Did I take a position on the genocide question? No.
I stated 2 facts, which you seem to find inconvenient for your narrative. We don't have a disagreement, unless you're disputing them?
It doesn't fit your narrative, but the civilian/military casualty numbers are on the high side of normal for urban combat.
If you use the numbers kindly provided by the IDF, you mean? Don't they have a pretty substantial motivation to lie?
Oh they definitely exaggerate - all parties to a conflict do. I accounted for that by using their estimates from more than a month ago against Hamas's current casualty counts. I think that's a fairly even-handed take but I'm sure people will disagree.
Yeah I mean I would definitely disagree because that estimate was mysteriously in line with assuming every single man killed (at that point) was in Hamas. Even saying half of all men killed seems pretty generous
Unfortunately I think we need to be drawing from the "children" numbers here. Hamas uses teenage soldiers extensively, and they have every incentive to put them on the front lines and report them under the "dead children" numbers.
My personal belief, and feel free to disagree, is that the numbers look something like this:
Hamas militants killed: 3000 adults, 5000 children (aged 16 - 18), all male. Totaling 8000.
Civilians killed: 5000 children, 5000 women, 8000 men. Totalling 18000.
Even those numbers seem to be highly exaggerated to me, not to mention the moral question about whether teenagers deserve to be killed, or maimed. Don't forget that Gaza's population is around 2.4M, and the Hamas militants are estimated around 30K, so even if we think that the male population of Gaza is like 600K, 30K is like 5%. Assuming that they were not using high precision munitions and deliberately were using a lot stronger bombs in this conflict I highly doubt that your number is even close to the actual casualties.
Unfortunately I believe we will never learn the actual figures because both sides would try to exaggerate/downplay those numbers.
Plus I highly doubt that all the targets were legitimate military targets. Right now it looks like a vendetta to me, where Israel is trying to make the whole region inhabitable and make the life of regular Palestinians with no affiliation to any terrorist organization a hell. And guess what? That's not a good recipe for peace or anything
Assuming that they were not using high precision munitions and deliberately were using a lot stronger bombs in this conflict I highly doubt that your number is even close to the actual casualties.
Yeah I think there was a report that about half of the bombs dropped have been "dumb" bombs that aren't used for precise targeting. So based on your math from those you would expect it to be about 5% Hamas to 95% "ah well sorry you were just born in the wrong place" innocent people. The other half may have been targeted better, but we don't even really know that.
You're right that we will probably never learn. But my guess would be maybe 10% Hamas to 90% whoopsy daisy oh my god so sorry about that.
It must be nice to just make up numbers and ages and sexes and occupations like that. Makes it real easy to justify genocide.
Yet you have no proof for your numbers, while the UN literally said that those from the health ministry of Gaza, so in the 25-30k range, are correct
Not arguing your point, just adding to it.
The health ministry in Gaza is run by Hamas, full disclaimer, however it's the best data out there despite coming from a source that could provide some bias. Even if you consider some of those included could be Hamas combatants, the vast majority likely were not, so you're still trying to justify thousands of innocent civilians deaths because of a disproportionate response to the Hamas attack.
Exactly, and Hamas would probably not be the only source of information in Gaza if Israel didn't kill dozens of journalists working there
also, because Israel has enforced concentration camp conditions on the people of Gaza, they are well aware of who lives and who does there. they are, unsurprisingly,.not really happy to release their estimates.
Yeah for total deaths. Mine add up to 26k. These numbers have never been civilian only.
It's only 16-18k death, I almost got outraged there. Anything over 20k makes me mad.
Thanks for clarifying.
"best estimates"
From the Zionist liars
Can you link a source for those estimates?
It's not a war, it's an ongoing genocide...
They're killing anything that moves, and that includes people on their own side occasionally
We did a lil whoopsie doodle. Oh well. Back to genociding.
A bit of an "oopsie-goof," if you will.
Sometimes you mistake a clearly unarmed civilian waving a white flag for multiple minutes as an enemy. You just never know.
This is I believe the third verified example of this I have seen, one were Israeli hostages. One time is a mistake, this is not. This is the same country that has a directive that will order the military to kill their own citizens.
- This guy
- The Israeli hostages
- The woman with her grandson holding the white flag
3 is my count as well.
Yeah Israel, when your goal is to kill tens of thousands of people or more, you'll make a few mistakes and kill the "wrong people" on occasion. Maybe try something like... not committing genocidal acts?
Anybody who's ever fired a gun knows this couldn't be a mistake.
Oh, interesting, because when we were talking about war crimes everyone was like "It's not war, though!" Hmmm.
He really seems torn up about it, too.
They probably thought that it was an escaped hostage trying to return to israel again.
this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
158 points (100.0% liked)
World News
48475 readers
1367 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS