The comments in here are really disappointing and a reflection of where this community has gone in general.
Excusing toxic gamer communities, accusing the developer of things for pointing it out? All because the game not in a good state is toxic in itself and really not what this community should be.
This place gets worse every week.
Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding what kind of commentary you were expecting.
Leading up to release as soon as the first reviews pointed out bad performance (see thread), many on Lemmy were bashing CO/Paradox for putting out a beta-stage product as if it was fully released, and Lemmings and people at large were never real fans of being unpaid QA testers for game companies.
Mind you, I love this game, and there's a lot in there that I can tell CO devs put their heart and soul in. But I see a comment or a post every now and then saying "Lemmy is becoming so toxic, like Reddit" [1] [2] [3] [4] and I'm trying to figure out what exactly has changed, if you can help me out here.
None of that excuses being toxic around the game though.
At most, it excuses just refunding it. And then never interacting with it or the community around it ever again.
For me it's the over representation of self described communists that take over every thread to poetically or unpoetically just keep saying capitalism=bad and then do shit like justify bad behavior because capitalism=bad or pretend to care about making sure employees get paid while advocating for piracy of everything being justified.
It’s becoming Reddit. Which is what we wanted last year? I know what you mean though. There is a difference between now and then with our community. Probably related to user count?
I've played CS2 for weeks. Days of hours. Have completely enjoyed it.
It's not finished and they're honest about that. Also, comparisons to CS in it's finished state (easy to do unconsciously) overlook just how many DLCs it took to get to full maturity.
I enjoy the game and have no regrets for buying. I don't feel deceived since I could have asked for as refund.
I think some of this is a specific kind of FOMO. Fear of missing out (on what could have been). I'm hoping they do enough to fix the parenthetical.
Edit to add: my computer has great specs for late 2020. It's not top of the line, but it has everything I thought it would need, CPU, RAM, GPU. That may impact my experience.
The game was unplayable on my 5 year old laptop. But it's not really a gaming rig anyhow...
Toxic devs get a toxic community. Why should I express sympathy for them experiencing consequences?
Yes, this is the kind of comment I am talking about when I am talking about how this community had gone downhill massively. Thank you for the example.
It is not hard to say that the game isn't in a good state, but that is no excuse for toxicity. Unless you yourself are a part of the problem.
How were the devs behaving toxic? I mean, should be easy enough to provide quotes, right?
Its the internet though. I don't know of a place on the internet where there's no toxicity.
Such a toxic community! I popped over to reddit and saw posts like this
This bug was introduced with the last Patch last year before they went for christmas/new year holidays. They are back since 1 week now and i think and hope they patch it as soon as possible . To be fair its only a Problem early till midgame before you got youre economy half way working, after this point you dont have money Problems at all . I find the ai pathfinding + the cargo System more gamebreaking then the money bug
On steam checking new reviews shows people are unhappy and refunding but there’s hardly any vitriol there either. Moderators are quick but not that quick.
Over on the official forums we see complaints, disappointment and frustration but little in the way of outright hatred.
I’ve yet to run across anything that crosses a line in terms of content I would moderate, however that doesn’t mean moderators didn’t nuke such comments before I could see them.
This looks like the expected reaction to a game being broken on release. The devs are simply shifting blame to the community.
This is a good time to introduce survivorship bias. You are looking at what is still there. Not what has been removed, burried or was done via dms/non public comms.
Or maybe you are right and they are just making up the toxicity remarks.
however that doesn’t mean moderators didn’t nuke such comments before I could see them.
Im well aware of survivorship bias and even addressed it in my comment.
It isn’t the first time devs have shifted blame for their failures to their customers.
I'm surprised they didn't see this coming. A lot of people had high expectations because of the impact the first game had and if it wasn't better in every way there was bound to be some negative feedback.
They're not complaining about negative feedback, are they? They're complaining about the internet hate machine, which we should be mature enough here to admit is a bunch of juvenile, masturbatory bullshit from people that want to feel good about themselves without doing anything to actually earn that, and so just shit mercilessly in every way on anything they don't like, because bullying others is a quick and easy way to feel strong for a brief time.
That's more than mere negative criticism.
Isn't that just a more extreme version of negative feedback?
The post the article is talking about does mention toxicity in the community and hints at it being directed at the devs but how much of that is people debating and talking about gripes they have with the game versus crude personal attacks?
All I was saying is this game received a lot of attention and hype so I felt like this was kind of an inevitably. They were never going to please everyone.
Very well said. It’s for this reason that I never admit openly that I am a gamer. It’s an embarrassing term.
There was no way the game was going to be better in every way, the previous game was being worked on for the better part of a decade.
Yeah I think expectations are too high, where people expected a perfect game like cities skylines forgetting that when it launched it was also a very rocky start.
Gamers in general are just very entitled, and very unforgiving
Gamers in general are just very entitled, and very unforgiving
Didn't the sequel have some pretty large problems on launch?
I think people expected a CS2 with at least some of the cS1 dlc as standard (at least parks) instead we got a base game and then told there wouldn't be a mod loader and we couldn't use the steam library. That's effectively nuked the ability for the community to "fix" the game.
well yeah, they are trying to sell a game that looks straight up unfinished, like it was a masterpiece.
entitled much? did they expect praise?
The statement still asks for criticism but asks for it to be polite.
You can say something is bad without sounding like an asshole.
People don’t tend to be polite when they buy a dodgy product of any kind, why would video games be different?
There's no reason to treat the developers like shit though.
Gamers don't need to act like entitled bitches about everything. Especially when they continue to play the game. Provide feedback, leave a review, and move on. There's no excuse for rudeness.
Can you tell me a single industry where you treat customers like shit and not get abuse in return?
People are acting like angry reviews are somehow unwarranted when customers are being sold defective products.
What about a single other industry where people make 8 hour long essays shitting on one specific person and get hundreds of thousands of views?
You’re not familiar with the car and motorcycle industries are you?
People spend years tearing into companies over vehicles, spending hundreds or thousands of hours meticulously detailing every engineering problem, real or imagined, and shitting on anyone who disagrees.
The only difference is that car and motorcycle companies generally shield their employees from criticism to a much greater degree.
You don’t usually see the engineers names in a credit screen in your car. Those engineers aren’t generally seen shit posting on twitter about how entitled the customers are because that would get them sacked.
Is there a word for an argument that tries to justify their side by saying "it happens in this other place, so it should be okay here, too", because that's what that sounds like to me.
You can be constructive without being a dick, full stop. No justification from it happening elsewhere will actually justify that. Being a dick is not justifiable. Feeling upset and angry absolutely is, and you can express that, again, without being a dick.
Show me people being dicks about it, I’ve looked and haven’t seen it.
I’ll tell you a dick move I have seen though… Ive seen a developer lie about features and deliver a broken mess for full price.
I'm talking generally, I have no real knowledge or horse in this specific race. If people aren't actually being toxic here, then that's awesome and they should keep it up.
Yes, I think if a developer does that and everyone involved in delivering that marketing and the developers knew from the outset they would have to deliver those features, but wouldn't be able to, and they didn't stop the people giving the public that information if they are even able to do that, then the specific people involved in those decisions would be dicks, even then, sinking to their level is not a good look.
This is also why people should wait for release and reviews. No one forced you at gunpoint to pay for a gane that didn't deliver on its marketing. This happens so much in this industry you should almost expect it and be wary, and the main way to get that message across to the dev is to not buy it until it's satisfactory. That's what they deserve for their transgression and what will hit them where it hurts deservedly, no money.
Shouldn’t expect toxicity.
Toxicity in our cities, in our Cities (Skylines 2 community)
You, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder, disorder?
*how do you own colossal order, colossal order
"In the long run, this will really hurt not only the mood and the happiness of community members but also discourage creativity and modding, something we would be very sad to see."
jkjk I know it's coming and I love Cities Skylines 2 even in the state it's in, but people are understandably impatient and upset at waiting for promised features to arrive.
Simulation speed grinds to a halt as soon as you slapdown a few high density buildings. You basically have to but endless low density sprawl or your city will grind to a halt. I think the Media team of colossal order deserve the toxicity they are receiving.
Whatever complaint you got about the game, saying that anyone « deserves toxicity » is not the clever take you think it is.
I scammed hundreds of thousands of people how dare they post mean comments on my works social media.
If you were scammed, go to court. If you need to grasp on any excuse to leash out a shitty online behaviour, fix your life.
If they are hurt by comments on the internet then they shouldn't be a social media manager.
So because their job means interacting with the community that means they customers are allowed to go ham and be total assholes? That's like saying that just because you work retail you shouldn't be upset by customers being dicks.
It'll absolutely happen anyway due to the nature of humans, and having a thick skin will help you cope with working a job like that, but that doesn't mean the customers should be acting that way and that we should just normalize and enable that behavior just because that's the way it is. It just perpetuates the problem.
Listen the game isn't perfect and did have a rough launch, but they're actively working on fixing and improving it. I've had 8+ hour straight binges of gameplay on it and enjoy it plenty. Is it completely what I hoped for? Not exactly, and the game could use more optimization but I still very much enjoy it, personally. It's more enjoyable to me so far than the first game, especially with the new tools and features they've added.
Toxicity is so dumb with g*mers, just refund and leave an honest review then move on with your lives people, geez.
That's what they are doing... The marketing team cannot handle their game being returned so they call the community toxic. Career suicide imo
This is happening everywhere in gaming, people could be critical without being complete assholes, it's getting out of hand.
On one hand people can be jerks, on the other hand there definetaly is a trend of releasing broken games with a 'patch it later' mentality.
Its kind of hard to take a side because people being assholes isn't the solution but remaining civil is just going to encourage the behaviour and we'll get even more broken releases.
No, most companies take positive action, not whine about toxic community
At this point, I'm mad they're about to launch the DLC for every damn feature. Everyone should avoid being toxic, but Paradox/Colossal Order aren't blameless here. They shipped the game half-finished, and are gonna screw you out of your money. Just go back to the first Skylines.
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