Yes, this is still necessary.
It wouldn't make sense to put the onus to block every bad instance onto every single user.
Consider the extreme use case, which is obviously CSAM. I rely on my instance admins to handle that for me. If I had to painstakingly block every instance that has poor moderation (or worse), I'd simply stop using Lemmy. The "all" feed would be utterly unusable.
Also, admins need control over what's in their own database, potentially for legal reasons.
This is where I’m currently at with “not technically nsfw but I don’t want people thinking I’m like that” trying to block anime communities centered around not-technically-nude pictures.
Yeah as an instance admin sorry not sorry I defederated most anime things like that. You want that? You host it. I don't need the feds knocking down my door.
Lol wtf? The feds are going to knock down your door because of anime pics of people that aren't even nude?
The feds will knock down your door because a kid you headshotted in CoD called them. Anime is one of the more understandable reasons if we're being honest.
edge lords, tankies, paedophiles, and alt-righters should always be defederated from
defedding pedos make sense but defedding the others you mentioned are a very slippery slope into making an echo chamber
something something paradox of tolerance
Sorry, you keep saying "echo chamber" when you wanted to type "usable instance". Something seems broken with your autocorrect.
if you want an echo chamber instance that's fine.
Real life is the biggest echo chamber you'll ever find. Online is one of the most diverse spaces you'll find. That said there's nothing to be gained by humoring fascists, ML, or groups only interested in engaging in bad faith. I say this as someone who trends social libertarian and is always up for some Marxism.
Then yes, we want an echo chamber. Happy? You're still defending scum, no matter the semantics.
Who's "we"?
Yes. As an admin of an instance who really doesn't want child porn on my server, I'm gonna defederate the shit out of any instance that doesn't take care of such content in a reasonable time. And in my opinion, loli is child porn, so defederating there as well.
Other than that, anything that's illegal in my jurisdiction.
And the last category, spam and bigotry. Basically anything that puts too much work on my plate - if I get dozens of reports a day for users of a single instance (and I agree with the reports), I'll defederate, because no one's paying for my time.
So these are some valid reasons for me to defederate. There are probably more.
Yes.
Hell yes
Instance admins should defederate as often as they feel is necessary, and users should learn to avoid relying on instances that do it too much.
Wow! Someone who gets "choice" and "freedom of association"!
This is the best part about Lemmy: if you disagree with the way an instance is run, you can setup your own and do what you want to do.
Personally I leave it up to people to block instances. The only instances I've had to block are the ones that post illegal content like CSAM.
Just run your own server! It’s so easy! And if you’re too poor to afford your own server, just get money!
I'm sorry. Does actually having to put a bit of skin in the game offend you? You'd rather the people spending the actual money and doing the actual work just bow to your whims?
Compassionate fucking BUDDHA are the anti-defederation crowd a bunch of entitled, whiny asses!
To combat spam and blatant fuckery, absolutely. Openly hateful places have no business on the general internet.
But anything else is better left to user discretion IMO.
Hey if you're allowed to block instances you want to block, so are instance owners. After all, it's their instance.
Yes, users shouldn't have to jump through a million hoops to get a decent feed.
Instance owners are responsible for the content that is mirrored on their instance through federation, so they definitely should.
Yes.
What you're describing is basically the way Twitter works, and there's a reason vulnerable folk have migrated away from it in large numbers
Every instance should be able to federate and defederate from any other instance for any, all, or no reason.
Yes. Instance and user defederation are best when used together.
The feature only lets you filter posts, not users from that instance.
Just give me the tools, as a user, to block instances. Not just the way it is done recently but truly block an instance and all it's posts and users. I want to be able to black hole an entire instance and all things related to it.
Other than the obvious criminal instances (CSAM)
I'll probably get downvoted for saying this, but in general I think defederation is against the free software ethos.
Free software is supposed to be about giving control back to the user, not the BOFH that happens to run the server they are using.
There's obviously going to be exceptions for illegal content, or actively trying to disrupt the lemmy network (by DDOS, flooding, etc) but I feel that's where the line should be drawn.
By "BOFH that happens to run the server" you mean "the volunteer whose money, time, and effort are being expended on your behalf", right?
This is the single most entitled opinion I've ever heard in this. "I, the person who bears none of the pecuniary, temporal, or psychological costs of running the server insist that 'the free software ethos' means I get what I want on someone else's computer."
Fuck that noise.
If you want a server run your way that federates with the people you want to federate with, put your own skin in the game. Run your own server with your own rules. THAT is the actual free software ethos: DIY if you don't like the way someone else does it.
The free software ethos is the punk ethos, not the hippy dippy shits ethos.
I think still yes, when a problem is abundantly clear, but borderline cases can more easily be left to individual preference.
Defederation should always be an extreme measure. Usually it's just the self-righteousness instinct trying to performatively obstruct other people. I usually find these discussions repulsive because of how people speak about each other (bitching about "tankies" or whatever and demanding that they be ideologically cleansed).
If we have more power to curate our own feeds, then there should be less defederation.
Usually it’s just the self-righteousness instinct…
I love¹ telepathic people who can read other people's minds and post on their behalf.
¹ This is sarcasm. I hate the delusional who think they're telepaths.
When you block the instance, it's only visible on your client. The fact that they still are federated and content from them is mirrored on your local instance stays unchanged. So they still should defederate with such instances.
In general I think people are too eager to block and defederate for little to no reason other than disagreement. There are exceptions but as far as a normal conversation it's an overreaction and the antithesis of federating anyway. We already have plenty of siloed walled gardens that are echo chambers.
Yes. I think it's especially important for attracting (or perhaps more accurately, maintaining) new users to the fediverse.
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration), Search Lemmy