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submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

A federal judge who is weighing whether to allow the nation’s first execution by nitrogen hypoxia to go forward next month, urged Alabama on Thursday to change procedures so the inmate can pray and say his final words before the gas mask is placed on his face.

U.S. District Judge R. Austin Huffaker made the suggestion in a court order setting a Dec. 29 deadline to submit information before he rules on the inmate’s request to block the execution. The judge made similar comments the day prior at the conclusion of a court hearing.

Alabama is scheduled to execute Kenneth Eugene Smith on Jan. 25 in what would be the nation’s first execution using nitrogen gas. Nitrogen hypoxia is authorized as an execution method in Alabama, Mississippi and Oklahoma but has never been used to put an inmate to death.

The proposed execution method would use a gas mask, placed over Smith’s nose and mouth, to replace breathable air with nitrogen, causing Smith to die from lack of oxygen.

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[-] yesman@lemmy.world 92 points 1 year ago

I think public executions where the prisoner is tortured to death are more progressive than supposed "humane" methods.

Not because I like cruelty or think they deserve it, but I want the State to do it's killing out in the open where citizens are exposed to what's happening in their name. Hiding the act behind closed doors and beneath a cloak of "humane" methods allows the State to exercise ultimate authority in secret from the people from whom that authority is derived. It's the State and the supporters of the death penalty that are being spared pain.

Yes, I got this from Foucault.

[-] Crack0n7uesday@lemmy.world 93 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You highly overestimate the amount of compassion the average person has. If you torture people to death in public people will sell tickets for the best seats. The Romans built a whole damn arena for this purpose.

[-] jwt@programming.dev 24 points 1 year ago

If anything, I think it would normalize killing (even more). But I guess I get where OP is coming from: Governments shouldn't get away with killing a human by claiming it's a humane act.

[-] yesman@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Yes! you're correct. It will be spectacle and celebration. We may revel in our cruelty, but we cannot feign mercy.

The question of capital punishment comes into focus. I don't trust in compassion; I'm advocating for honesty.

[-] CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I can’t tell if you’re joking or if you think people have the same morals as someone from the roman history

[-] wolfshadowheart@slrpnk.net 16 points 1 year ago

Have you seen the state of the world lately? I'm surprised we don't have the football stadiums converted once a year for this

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[-] pixeltree 15 points 1 year ago

gestures around at the lack of empathy tons of people are all proud to display

[-] Goferking0@ttrpg.network 8 points 1 year ago

points at all the anger when making violent sports safer or pointing out the long term damage cause

[-] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

It's easy to forget, but we have the same brains as back then. Societal values may have changed, but there will be those with a sick fascination who want to see. When the bath school massacre happened (1920s I think?) People took home souvenirs.

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[-] set_secret@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Honestly I think you'll find they're not aa different as you wish they were. people are as cruel today as they've ever been.

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[-] kromem@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Tell me you've never watched a Republican primary debate without telling me.

Nearly every election cycle there's at least one debate where the death penalty comes up and you have governors competing with each other over body counts to an audience cheering them on.

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[-] SCB@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What Foucalt gets wrong here is that historically, civilians just enjoy it. They don't find it barbaric or inhumane.

Like there wouldn't be some national conversation about "what have we become" - it'll just be a fun thing people do.

[-] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 36 points 1 year ago

So easy to build a sealed room. Why use a mask in the first place? Slowly exchange air for nitrogen and the prisoner dies saying his pointless prayer. Never even knows it happened. No suffering, no nothing. Just lights out. Then re exchange for air so the body can be safely collected. This is not rocket surgery.

[-] DriftinGrifter 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

no suffering

Person fucking dies that's like the ultimate suffering i can think of, holy fuck killing people can't be made humane no matter how many different methods are used

[-] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

I don't think you know what the word suffering means.

[-] DriftinGrifter 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Physical or mental pain someone experiences dying will definitely be mentally painful if you know its gonna happen and once someone stops responding and the brainwaves go spaz i don't think thats especially nice either not 100% sure as i've never Been braindead

[-] Guest_User@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

There are absolutely bigger pains of suffering besides certain deaths.

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[-] Bipta@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Because cruelty.

[-] BottleOfAlkahest@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

That sounds like the plan they have already just with an entire room rather than just a small mask. It's the same thing except your plan requires more gas and a bigger dedicated gas chamber with more failure points.

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Why use a mask: because it's cheaper, and helps secure the people nearby (in case of a room leaking, that's a lot of displaced air, while a mask or similar leaking is significantly less of risk in case of uncontrolled release). But I bet mostly because it's cheaper - and remember, it's never been done before (by them, for this purpose).

[-] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 5 points 1 year ago

But like 15 states have gas chambers. They aren't used because all they ever tried was cyanide or carbon monoxide, both of which caused significant suffering. But the effects of nitrogen have been known since the birth of scuba. Cheaper has never mattered. Lethal injection is incredibly expensive, as is running the electric chair. If cost actually mattered hanging or firing squads would be the go to methods. I've personally never been able to grasp why it matters. Why shouldn't these people, who have caused untold amounts of suffering be made to suffer on their way out of existence? These are serial murderers and the like. Personally I think we should add serial rapists to the list of executable offenders. I simply do not understand why the worst of men should receive any kindness at all. They gave none to their victims. And so fucking what if they are remorseful. If you commit atrocities you should be handled in kind and definitely do not deserve to be kept alive like some pet of the state fed on the taxpayers' dime.

There's something wrong inside you.

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[-] lingh0e@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago

Who else do you think deserves to be tortured to death?

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[-] YoFrodo@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago

What if we stop executing people entirely?

[-] hOrni@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

No, that would be to moral. Unchristian even.

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[-] iBaz@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Did he allow his victim to pray and say final words?

[-] Serinus@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago

It doesn't matter. We don't do eye for an eye here.

[-] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Literally what the death penalty is. If what you said was true we would be working on rehabilitation.

[-] Dirk_Darkly@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

How dare you undercut their platitude with reasoning.

[-] JayDee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

The death penalty is not an ultimate punishment for a crime, in it's most logical sense. It is based on a conclusion that an individual is 'beyond saving', evidenced by the actions they commit. Eliminating them from existence is the only guarantee they never do a similar action in the future.

There's plenty of reasons why this reasoning falls apart , though - namely that quite often you can't be 100% sure you have the actual culprit, or that they are actually 'beyond saving'.

[-] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

A person beyond saving could still be left in prison for life and at least treated humanly. We kill them because what they did is so bad we want them dead. People try to pretend otherwise but thats what it is. Simple as that.

And honestly I get it. I fully think some people should die for what they did. But, like you said, we run into the problem of how often our shitty legal system gets the wrong person which is why I don't believe in the death penalty despite the fact I think some people should just die.

[-] JayDee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

I agree with the first part, though not the second. I doubt most judges view the death penalty as a pointless act of spite, and view it more as a logical removable of an irredeemable agent.

My rationale on it is different. I think that if someone commits a heinous action, they either did it for a logical reason or an illogical reason. If it was logical to commit the act, then that is a failure of the system for creating perverse incentives, and change must occur to remove such incentives. If the person committed the act for illogical reasons, then there is something wrong with them, and the should be treated as someone suffering from something. If the individual is deemed truly "beyond saving" then they are suffering a mental handicap and should be sheltered such that they aren't a danger to themselves or others.

By this logic, there is never justification for a death penalty.

[-] frazw@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Murderer put to death. Don't do eye for an eye. Hmm OK America.

[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago

I fundamentally oppose the death penalty, but if a state is going to insist on doing it I want them to do it as humanely as possible. It should never be done as "revenge."

[-] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

In one of the articles about this case it was said, "we do not teach those not to rape by raping them."

[-] GrammatonCleric@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

This isn't the Old Testament, fool

[-] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

No you're right. America would absolutely never try to base legal decisions on religion. We are so far beyond that.

[-] GrammatonCleric@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Wha....when did I say that?

[-] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

You are saying that we wouldn't act like that because this isn't the Old testament and I am pointing out that we are trying very fucking hard to treat our legal system that way. That is literally what is happening right this second.

[-] GrammatonCleric@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

No, I made a shallow joke that you read waaaaay too far into. Get a hobby or something.

[-] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Actually, yes. this is Kenneth Eugene Smith, who was convicted in a 1988 murder-for-hire slaying of a preacher's wife. Elizabeth Sennett, 45, was found dead on March 18, 1988, in her home in Alabama's Colbert County. She had been stabbed eight times in the chest and once on each side of neck.

In all actuality, there is no information saying that he did or did not allow this, but I did learn a lot about this case. Turns out two guys were hired to kill this pastors wife because the pastor had an affair (doesn't make sense but it is what happened). These two guys, one of them stole things to stage a burglary. He was put to death in 2010 and his last words were to her sons, "I'm sorry. I don't ever expect you to forgive me. I really am sorry."

The other, currently on death row, agreed to beat her, but apparently did not intend to kill her.

After the pastor became a suspect, he drove to the gathering, told his sons what part he had played (hiring a crew to kill his wife and himself having an affair), then got into his truck and shot himself.

It's a waste of life. Terrible decisions from three people that ultimately led to a severely somber outcome for everyone involved.

Probably not. But remember that ~4% of all death row inmates are innocent, so it may be that he didn't kill anyone.

Also, shouldn't the state be better than a murderer? Shouldn't the mere fact that we believe we, as a society, are civilized mandate allowing a death row inmate respect before they die?

I'm not religious, so I don't think praying and final words will do anything. But it won't harm anyone, and if it makes him more comfortable as he goes out, especially in light of the likelihood he didn't that to his victim, I'm not against it.

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[-] crystalmerchant@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

When was the country's most recent capital punishment before this one?

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this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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