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this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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Did he allow his victim to pray and say final words?
It doesn't matter. We don't do eye for an eye here.
Literally what the death penalty is. If what you said was true we would be working on rehabilitation.
How dare you undercut their platitude with reasoning.
The death penalty is not an ultimate punishment for a crime, in it's most logical sense. It is based on a conclusion that an individual is 'beyond saving', evidenced by the actions they commit. Eliminating them from existence is the only guarantee they never do a similar action in the future.
There's plenty of reasons why this reasoning falls apart , though - namely that quite often you can't be 100% sure you have the actual culprit, or that they are actually 'beyond saving'.
A person beyond saving could still be left in prison for life and at least treated humanly. We kill them because what they did is so bad we want them dead. People try to pretend otherwise but thats what it is. Simple as that.
And honestly I get it. I fully think some people should die for what they did. But, like you said, we run into the problem of how often our shitty legal system gets the wrong person which is why I don't believe in the death penalty despite the fact I think some people should just die.
I agree with the first part, though not the second. I doubt most judges view the death penalty as a pointless act of spite, and view it more as a logical removable of an irredeemable agent.
My rationale on it is different. I think that if someone commits a heinous action, they either did it for a logical reason or an illogical reason. If it was logical to commit the act, then that is a failure of the system for creating perverse incentives, and change must occur to remove such incentives. If the person committed the act for illogical reasons, then there is something wrong with them, and the should be treated as someone suffering from something. If the individual is deemed truly "beyond saving" then they are suffering a mental handicap and should be sheltered such that they aren't a danger to themselves or others.
By this logic, there is never justification for a death penalty.
Murderer put to death. Don't do eye for an eye. Hmm OK America.
I fundamentally oppose the death penalty, but if a state is going to insist on doing it I want them to do it as humanely as possible. It should never be done as "revenge."
In one of the articles about this case it was said, "we do not teach those not to rape by raping them."
This isn't the Old Testament, fool
No you're right. America would absolutely never try to base legal decisions on religion. We are so far beyond that.
Wha....when did I say that?
You are saying that we wouldn't act like that because this isn't the Old testament and I am pointing out that we are trying very fucking hard to treat our legal system that way. That is literally what is happening right this second.
No, I made a shallow joke that you read waaaaay too far into. Get a hobby or something.
Actually, yes. this is Kenneth Eugene Smith, who was convicted in a 1988 murder-for-hire slaying of a preacher's wife. Elizabeth Sennett, 45, was found dead on March 18, 1988, in her home in Alabama's Colbert County. She had been stabbed eight times in the chest and once on each side of neck.
In all actuality, there is no information saying that he did or did not allow this, but I did learn a lot about this case. Turns out two guys were hired to kill this pastors wife because the pastor had an affair (doesn't make sense but it is what happened). These two guys, one of them stole things to stage a burglary. He was put to death in 2010 and his last words were to her sons, "I'm sorry. I don't ever expect you to forgive me. I really am sorry."
The other, currently on death row, agreed to beat her, but apparently did not intend to kill her.
After the pastor became a suspect, he drove to the gathering, told his sons what part he had played (hiring a crew to kill his wife and himself having an affair), then got into his truck and shot himself.
It's a waste of life. Terrible decisions from three people that ultimately led to a severely somber outcome for everyone involved.
Probably not. But remember that ~4% of all death row inmates are innocent, so it may be that he didn't kill anyone.
Also, shouldn't the state be better than a murderer? Shouldn't the mere fact that we believe we, as a society, are civilized mandate allowing a death row inmate respect before they die?
I'm not religious, so I don't think praying and final words will do anything. But it won't harm anyone, and if it makes him more comfortable as he goes out, especially in light of the likelihood he didn't that to his victim, I'm not against it.
Should the state have the same low moral bar as criminals? (It's a rhetorical question that was answered when the state decided to murder someone that's not a threat anymore in cold blood)