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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by shatal@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] Silverseren@kbin.social 69 points 1 year ago

Isn't this the video where they used things like a calendar with regular dates and claimed it was a list of Hamas members?

The entire area they showed looked like the power area of the hospital's basement, with various things on the walls and such that indicate hospital and nothing else.

Their only "evidence" in the videos was the pile of guns they showed, which...isn't really evidence of anything, especially since we have no way to tell if those were planted or not.

[-] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 46 points 1 year ago

Reminds me of Russia's failed attempt to demonstrate that Nazis were in Ukraine by releasing photos of a 'bust' that was obviously staged and includes gems like multiple copies of The Sims video game which were supposed to be sim cards.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/25/russia-appears-to-confuse-the-sims-for-sim-cards-in-possible-staged-assassination-attempt/

[-] chellewalker@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 year ago

Another video distributed by Russian state news agency RIA showed an inscription in an unidentified book supposedly recovered in the arrest — signed in Russian with the words “signature illegible.”

This whole article is just bonkers.

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[-] jonne@infosec.pub 16 points 1 year ago

I mean, there are definitely Nazis fighting for Ukraine. As there were Nazis fighting for Wagner, it's not exactly a secret and they have the symbols right on their uniforms.

[-] remotelove@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Lol, yeah. I just had to explain how that kind of manipulation works.

Propaganda is a powerful force when it's used to reinforce an existing bias. Facts are irrelevant because you saw what you wanted to see.

Governments play the propaganda war hard. I am not picking sides over it: It is what it is.

Edit: Confirmation bias. That is the phrase I was referring to.

[-] dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org 36 points 1 year ago

Yes lol. Apparently a terrorist militia command center is less well armed than a random house in Arizona. If you watch this video and are convinced by it, I have a bridge to sell you.

[-] Silverseren@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

Especially with this coming on the heels of that almost pristine copy of Mein Kampf they were pushing as belonging to a Hamas member in a children's room the IDF partially blew up.

[-] dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 1 year ago

There's also that video of a "nurse" in perfectly clean scurbs with an Israeli accent that none of the real staff had ever seen before crying that Hamas had taken over the hospital.

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[-] shatal@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

They showed much more than that, including equipment, clothes and a motorcycle that are suspected to have been used in the 7/10 atrocities.

They do say that they are still investigating and going over the evidence, but show and make it clear that they did find weapons and a command post inside the hospital.

Regarding the planted comment - well, if that's what you believe then it doesn't really matter what they show, doesn't it? You've already made up your mind and it doesn't matter what the evidence show..

[-] remotelove@lemmy.ca 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sorry, but showing pictures of guns, clothes and a motorcycle is not evidence. I don't care what the news is about or where it's from. True or not, this kind of thing needs independent reporting and third-party verification. Period.

When you see stories like this from any source, question everything. Showing pictures that confirm an existing bias is a powerful tool of manipulation, so please remember that.

Early in the Ukraine war, Russia was pushing the Nazi misinformation extremely hard. By the time fake news stories were debunked, it was too late. Russians were fully convinced that Ukraine was about to invade and old news getting debunked didn't matter.

This story is an example: https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-agents-the-sims-video-game-sting-operation-2022-4

Lets just say there are quite a few layers to the story I linked, so take it with a grain of salt. _It is just an example.

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[-] Silverseren@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

Then why did they lie about a calendar? What was the purpose of that exactly?

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[-] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 50 points 1 year ago

Hamas using hospitals as human shields is horrific. Israel ignoring the human shields is horrific.

IDF are just clarifying they are awful, as much as Hamas are.

[-] shatal@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately no winners here, as is with most wars.

[-] machinin@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Israel is already robbing more Palestinian lands, justifying it with this war. Looks like they might be winners here.

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[-] ShroOmeric@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago

Too bad they killed or sent away any journalist or independent organization able to verify their bullshit. So I guess we're supposed to take their word even of they lied more times than I can count?

[-] skhayfa@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago

It's a basement of a hospital that hundreds of civilians used as bomb shelter. Weak effort of propaganda from IDF because they know US will support the claim anyway.

[-] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

We don't care what the IDF says.

[-] shatal@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago

You probably should.

Whether you agree or not, it's always a good idea to hear both sides, otherwise there's a good chance you'll end up in an echo chamber.

If their story is fabricated it'll fall apart very quickly.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago

If their story is fabricated it’ll fall apart very quickly.

It did. Look at the current top comment.

[-] dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 1 year ago

It falls apart while watching the video if you're not an idiot.

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[-] ShroOmeric@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

No you should not. During wars in particular you need third party verification, you can't be so naive to believe anything from the parties involved.

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[-] gila@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

There is an underground city in Gaza. Terrorists hide there. It would be strange under the circumstances for there not to be tunnels leading to/from the hospital. The IDF's claim is most likely true.

The "other side" of the argument is not a rejection of this, it is to point out that these circumstances were manufactured by apartheid, and that they do not justify Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign

[-] remotelove@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As an addendum, if you only hear two sides to a story, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle and usually nothing like what people actually had to experience.

Honestly, what I see is much worse. Hamas stated they were going to use human shields and Israel hasn't given a fuck. War doesn't get any more sobering than that, to be honest.

I listen to a metric fuck ton of propaganda and it takes a ton of work to sort through it all. (I am using the term "propaganda" in the context of strong bias, not necessarily misinformation.) One thing I can say, is that the second you get emotional about news from sources like this, you are becoming vulnerable to actual misinformation. Information warfare is real and just as dangerous as bullets, in some ways.

Like I implied before, the actual truth to a story about war is probably much worse than people may think.

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[-] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

We know, at least some of us, that you won't give Israel a fair shake.

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[-] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago

Wow this morning it was a hostage holding room now it's a command center, remarkable

[-] deleted@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I started to see a lot of Israel propaganda lately.

[-] retrieval4558@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago

Every post on my feed from this world news community is just "IDF: Hamas using baby organs to make bombs".

Probably going to block it

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[-] Khalic@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago

Lemmy’s Hamas groupies out in full force today. Can’t wait for every hamas member to die underground, screaming about their imaginary space man

[-] DingDongBell@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

Ikr, Lemmy is full of pro hamas

[-] leraje 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Until a reliable, independent news agency verifies it, any claim from either side should be viewed as misleading. It's also worth noting that it's not just Hamas denying this, it's also the facility itself. Here's part of a report from one of the BBC correspondents in Gaza:

"Israel has accused Hamas of having a command and control centre underneath Shifa - which the group denies.

I have been to the hospital hundreds of time - I was born there, my son was born there, in the last two months of my mum's life, she was inside the kidney dialysis centre and I used to visit her every day.

It is very hard to verify what is underneath. With my eyes, I haven't seen any military capability inside the hospital buildings."

~~Lastly, consider the fact that this hospital is in one of the places the IDF instructed Palestinians to flee to . Are we now saying that the IDF were purposefully trying to place Palestinians in danger by telling them to go to a location where they knew Hamas operated from?~~

Source, time logged 08:14

EDIT: I was referring to the wrong hospital - see my comment below for details.

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[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

With the usual caveat "The IDF says:". Same care is needed to anything "The Hamas says:". Both sides have their agenda, and it is not necessary involving facts and truths.

[-] avater@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

totally agree on that but even our german state news station is reporting that there were foreign journalists with the soldiers on the spot to witness the storage of weapons and other military equipment, so it seems this has at least other sources besides the IDF

and to give perspective on our state news, they usually label any news shared by only one source or side as not independently verified and are financed by law by the german citizens and not some big company with an agenda. So they are by all means not perfect but usually a pretty safe source.

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[-] dumdum666@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

„Watch IDF Spokesperson RAdm. Daniel Hagari walk through one of Hamas' subterranean terrorist tunnels—only to exit in Gaza's Rantisi hospital on the other side. “

The footage does not show what the tweet suggests. Hagari does not enter the Hospital through a Hamas tunnel. At least not in the version they have uploaded.

[-] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago

Fortieth time's the charm.

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this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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