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submitted 1 year ago by Grayox@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[-] praise_idleness@sh.itjust.works 175 points 1 year ago

A communist nation that can really provide all that is as realistic as capitalistic utopia.

[-] SilentStorms@lemmy.dbzer0.com 105 points 1 year ago

Not a tankie, but the USSR had mostly solved this problem, despite all its other issues. There did exist some homelessness, but nowhere near the extent of current USA.

[-] pelya@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago

Sure, you could get a piece of land in Siberian tundra at any time, I would not call that housing.

Moving to a city was way more complicated than in capitalist US. You could not simply buy an apartment. You had to be allocated an apartment by the government. And you needed connections for that. Or bribes. Ideally both. If you think your local rabid Republicans do not care for little wage slave men, you never experienced USSR, it was like that but 100x worse.

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[-] Klear@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 year ago

The real communist solution to homelessness was to put them in jails. True story.

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[-] ColdWater@lemmy.ca 111 points 1 year ago

Why a lot of people on Lemmy like communist so much? As a person who grow up in a country which is almost destroyed by the communist party in the past I don't know what to say just why?, capitalist or not it's depends on your own country's government, at least you still can talking shit about them without getting arrested and torture to death, have we not learn from the past or other communist country, why don't you live in North Korea or China and see how've you like it

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 69 points 1 year ago

I'm going to take your question as genuine and answer in equal.

It's a bit more complicated than that. Most leftists will agree with you, the USSR and other Eastern Europe countries that were communist did a lot of damage and most likely more harm. They committed atrocities. They were authoritarian. It was disgusting.

The leftists who still prop those countries up on their shoulders are what many call tankies. Today they sing praise about Russia, China, and North Korea, but your observation is correct, they won't ever move there. These are individuals who repeat propaganda and are, ultimately, just red fascists. When you actually dig into their ideals they parallel and sometimes mirror Nazis.

I believe leftism cannot have an authoritarian element to it. I think most social hierarchies need to be destroyed. I think the only way to have a socialist society is through democratic means. Democracy in the workplace and national level. I think most of us can agree workers need higher wages and there is a wealth gap that needs to be dismantled. I think most of us believe healthcare needs to be universal, food and shelter and water, education, information (internet), speech, and much more should be free and readily available. There is this element of freedom that needs to be achieved that isn't found the countries that are "communist".

I don't want to explicitly say those communist countries wasn't "real communism", but fascists, authoritarianism, always appropriate from progressive movement. There is no freedom, especially of workers, under a dictatorship. If workers are starving, dying, being outright black bagged and killed, i don't think that can be considered communist.

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[-] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 42 points 1 year ago

It's an unfortunately nuanced subject, where people don't agree on the underlying definitions of words. For instance, I think you're confusing "capitalism" with "democracy". You can have authoritarian undemocratic capitalist countries, where you can't talk shit about your government.

For me personally, I think communism has too many issues to actually try, but I like some of its theoretical tennants when compared to that of capitalism. Those goals are something to strive for. The spirit of communism is helping eachother and rewarding work, and the spirit of capitalism is sacrificing others for personal gain

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[-] Soleos@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because they are reacting to living under the oppressive structures of late capitalism. Having been raised in a capitalist world, they naturally overemphasize economic systems and their alternatives and make assumptions about government.

So when they communism theyusually mean communism + some equitable government or just they mean socialist democracy.

Funnily enough, you live pretty well in China these days if you're a good little capitalist.

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[-] Cowbee@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago

A number of reasons. Just like you claim a Communist party almost destroyed your country, Capitalist parties destroy and are destroying many countries as well. The existence of bad Communist parties does not itself mean Communism is structurally a bad thing, as pursuit of a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society is a noble goal for humanity.

I think it's fair to say that decentralization is a good check against Authoritarianism, and as such, this should be extended to the workplace, not just government.

As far as why Lemmy leans left, the founder is a Communist, and principles of decentralization and federation tend to appeal far more to leftists, while Capitalist-inclined individuals have Reddit.

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[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Saying that any existing communist party looks like what we, or theory, want(s), is like saying that North Korea is a Democratic Republic because it's part of the name. Authoritarians love corrupting the meaning of words so they can keep people ignorant.

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[-] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 98 points 1 year ago

These discussions on communism vs capitalism that devolve into comparing the US with the USSR are like discussing feudalism vs liberalism in 1825, when the only perceptible legacies of the French Revolution were the Reign of Terror and Napoleon's degeneration into monarchy.

If you're sensibly anticapitalist, for the love of Marx do not argue in favor of states that rejected all pretension of wanting to let the economy be democratically managed, ultimately turning into party-controlled hierarchies rather than socialism. If you're a liberal in 1825 and rather than arguing in favor of ending serfdom and enfranchising everyone you keep going on about how Robespierre wasn't really that bad, you're politically useless.

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[-] Zerush@lemmy.ml 86 points 1 year ago

This is capitalist solution to homelessness

[-] seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 1 year ago

I love the top one, because it's the same way they deal with pigeons. They see poor people as just another pest.

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[-] TheDarksteel94@sopuli.xyz 83 points 1 year ago

What if, and hear me out on this one, the problem isn't which "-ism" is prevalent. The real problem is that ANY form of power or society needs checks and balances. If those are missing or not enforced, then everything goes to shit. It's a balancing act, not just a matter of black or white.

[-] Grayox@lemmy.ml 41 points 1 year ago

The whole point of Communism is to balance power away from the 1% and back to the masses. The fact that it is an "-ism" and has decades of propaganda demonozing it, doesnt make that any less true.

[-] Kalkaline@leminal.space 43 points 1 year ago

The important part is it's not an authoritarian running the show and calling it "communism" or " democracy" when the reality is it's just a plain old oligarchy with a new title applied.

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[-] superduperenigma@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

The whole point of Communism is to balance power away from the 1% and back to the masses

But there needs to be some governing body that is responsible for determining how the power and wealth is distributed. Per the OP's point: if the proper guardrails are not in place, control of that governing body will eventually shift towards a person or party who corrupts it for their own purposes. It doesn't matter what the "point" of a system is, corrupt people will always attempt to take the wheel.

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[-] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

balance power away from the 1% and back to the masses

By installing a dictator...every time it's attempted...

Maybe not do that next time and try doing it from the bottom up instead of top-down🏴. It's much more work to convince people that this is a solution and have them help willingly instead of forcing them to go along with it. We tried the Marxist-Leninist way dozens of times, let's try the anarchist way. A capitalist boot or a communist boot on my neck makes no difference to me, it's still a boot on my neck.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That is a problem of how revolution works, not a problem of communism.

Create a power vaccuum, and those who had the most power will STILL have the most influence. Even if you literally killed all the old power, you would be immediately creating an authority structure with the legal authority of capital punishment, which many, MANY communists wouldn't agree with.

The problem is horrible people exist, NOT the concept of communism. For every reason people shit on Communism, there are twenty valid reasons to shit on capitalism. Neither system works in the real world on its own. To pretend like capitalism is magical in comparison is literally failing to observe reality.

The rich and powerful constantly shit on political action because it IS effective. They do not enjoy going through the effort of retaining power through internal conflicts and ESPECIALLY not actual revolutions. Why would they EVER tell you the truth?

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[-] SloganLessons@kbin.social 30 points 1 year ago

But I want to defend my -ism

[-] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Sir please put your -ism away, you're scaring the children.

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[-] ilovesatan@lemmy.world 77 points 1 year ago

Communism's solution to homelessness is mass starvation.

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[-] Pharmacokinetics@lemmy.world 74 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

People tend to argue that commie blocks look depressing and dystopian but you can actually make very pretty neighborhoods with them.

This is where I live. It's called Oyak Sitesi in Turkey/Antalya and it's a beautiful place with an actual community. Very affordable too. We just did a stability test and they were also very durable to earthquakes.

Just because you're making blocks doesnt also mean that they have to be 20 stories tall either. Here is my old house.

[-] Oszilloraptor@feddit.de 39 points 1 year ago

The important parts are paint and maintenance.

Give a commie block a fresh coat of paint every decade or so and they can look good (though I just don't like flat roofs. But that's personal taste.)

But while a somewhat run down european style house can still have some charme for longer (guess I'm biased here) a run down commie block in gray and with cracks in the facade will quickly start to look depressing.

And as they are often chosen for cost reasons inside capitalistic environments, they are often neglected.

So, the problem is not commie blocks, but how they are maintained. And as often we tend to search for the extreme examples if we (dis)like something.

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[-] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 71 points 1 year ago

Please, not this again.... Personally, I am a lot in favour of communism. But some people, especially US Americans, have a fundamentally wrong idea about the housing shown in the upper picture.

This is often neither cheap, nor does it reduce homelessness. And it's also not the goal of that kind of rental homes to reduce homelessness.

That is just normal homes of average people in many places.

It's not "cheap housing for everyone".

[-] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago

Those houses were built by state-backed actors to support growing urbanization and create a housing surplus for that urbanization to give the workers more power since they no longer have to deal with aggressively rent-seeking private landlords.

Wait, isn't that communism?

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[-] uis@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago

This is not communist solution, this is half-socialism humant colony solution.

Real communist solutions look like this:

[-] riodoro1@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Shit still looks better than a tent under a bridge you know.

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[-] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I live in north-east Germany in one of these Blocks (it was firmly renovated tho). It's actually not bad. Most of them are build in Horseshoe shape so you have small parks inside. But it's nearly impossible to hang anything to the wall without proper power tools. EDIT: typos

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[-] Koof_on_the_Roof@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

Capitalism has a solution to the tent problem though

UK - The home secretary is proposing new laws to restrict the use of tents by homeless people, arguing that many of them see it as a "lifestyle choice".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67321319

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[-] Commiunism@lemmy.wtf 33 points 1 year ago

Finland is capitalist and kind of solved homelessness, with there being around only 1.3k homeless people in the entire country (population: 5.6m, which means the rate of homelessness is around 0.02%).

I don't think that communism or any ideology is an answer to homelessness, it's pretty much the job for the government and what kind of systems/reforms they implement.

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[-] TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee 33 points 1 year ago

Pls keep your talkie bulshit out of the meme subs. You may be right with this one, but this still isn't a political sub, so just don't.

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[-] essellburns@beehaw.org 26 points 1 year ago

Not in the UK. Our government is looking to ban the tents next. That'll fix the homeless issue 😕

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this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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