The big thing about MMOs is that they (try to) create communities, and being part of a community is a surefire way to make people stay.
Give too much freedom for a single player and the community as a whole falters. Give them enough to do without groups, but leave the "good stuff" as something exclusive to groups and don't give dungeon finders or similar auto-grouping tools. I say this as someone who spent way, way too much time playing WoW like a single-player game
The thumbnail made me think that this was Michio Kaku saying that.
Make a SMALL mmo for heaven's sake ! How many crazy scale MMOs need to fail before someone learns that lesson ? Make a really, really polished slice of an MMO, and build up from there.
I like that idea too, more of a MMO than a MMO.
(Mediumly Multiplayer Online, I mean, none of that massively nonsense, let's call it... that...hmm? No I won't apologize, hey, get your hands off me!... Jazz tossed out of Bel Air snippet)
Tbh I'd rather just play a really good Single Player game over any MMO. Level 5s RPG fantasy life comes to mind with how well it can beat anything multiplayer. I'm le tired of credit card simulators.
I'm replaying Crosscode and just yesterday I thought that the MMO that game is set in would be cool as an actual pixel art MMO.
I think it really depends. People literally have significantly less time than they did in 2005 when WoW got big. People have to work longer or multiple jobs just to pay sky high rent and mortgage prices with long, stagnated wages.
I get wanting to bring back the nostalgia of a bygone era but these community mmo's where they were very social were a gigantic time sink that most people simply can't do now.
god so much this.
I'd love to play some Burning Crusade Classic and raid again, and it is admittedly much easier to raid at a high level in that than Classic where you gotta get world buffs in addition to your flasks and potions, but I just don't have 16-20 hrs per week to dedicate to an MMO right now. I'm just too busy looking for a partner and a better job.
Exactly, I miss WoW now and then and especially when I get over-the-top busy with work/life, not because the game is so good but because I miss the simpler life I had back then when my biggest stress was getting realm-first achievements.
I want an MMO where social reputation actually matters. None of this phasing shit where you play with people you'll never see again. MMOs need a sense of community. Modern WoW is just a single player game that lets you get cursed at by 12 year olds right now.
My MMO wishlist is more survival mechanics. Having to prepare before you leave town. Like in old WoW. You have enough food for you and your pet? Bullets? Potions? Leaving town was an event as was getting to the next one.
Yeah, looking back...25(?) years, Ultima online was my go-to
You could just be making a living by running a shop and stuff.
In that sense it really was like a second world.
We had meetings there, where we discussed and decided together how to proceed with the city or some current problems.
The quests weren't the main thing for me, much more the people there on this specific server
I was too young to catch the UO train, but from everything I heard about it I would have loved it.
I'm still loving it
A remake with the same principle would be absolutely awesome
Edit: because of your comment, I've checked out, if there are still servers online
Seems to be :-)
MMOs (the kind that are actually good) require people to be social to function properly. Everyone wants to build single-player experiences that function as MMOs kinda sorta. It has a big impact on the quality of these games.
People are less social than they were 20+ years ago too.
The problem is the lack of innovation on the formula. Many MMOs are the exact same mechanics, quests, dungeons, with a different lore and graphics.
Ideally all classes should be able to farm alone, ideally the grind should not punish adults with limited time.
But I totally agree l, socialization is fundamental to it. I just miss new ways to make players socialize.
I miss Ragnarok Online in this regard, where sitting would recover hp, mp faster, making players often sit and talk while they wait to recover.
RO was godlike. And so was Eve Online. I wish more games favoured an open ended game play formula.
I'm completely sucked in by Project Zomboid at the moment. If it had better Multiplayer, with easier to find servers, more comprehensive mod handling and a refined netcode, it'd be the GOAT.
Just give me an experience like azerothcore with playerbots and I'll be happy.
Also if ya'll want a singleplayer mmo play erenshor. It's more everquest than wow in gameplay tho.
Yah we just need something new that brakes away from the wow style RPG, some are trying but I don't think they go far enough.
Oh a tread about MMOs?
I guess I'll shamelessly plug Foxhole. Not your traditional MMO. The community is small enough that a lot of people know each other. Also no subscription fee! Please join green team. 👍
Yah, I think foxhole is a really good example of why the idea of “reinventing the MMO” is a really good discussion.
Before foxhole I had largely bounced off of MMOs because a lot were overly focused on “quests”, boss fights, loot tables and other spreadsheet nonsense. The sword and sorcery setting of many also just didn’t grab my attention.
Foxholes focus on collaborative logistics, supply chains, and large scale persistent warfare, not to mention being more grounded as a setting, actually engaged me and got me involved in teamwork and collaboration that was very fun.
Also blue team rules green team drools.
Also blue team rules green team drools.
People want to be in on the ground floor of the new hype thing. Then they leave. That's what New World proved, its colossal dropoff in active players and revenue wasn't entirely because Amazon killed some golden goose. Anyone trying to say "people want new MMOs" is probably coping about that surely the new MMO they want to not fail is going to survive.
New Thing Hype works for a couple years to be sure. And then you run into the content wall and learn that by playing a more established MMO like FF or WOW or ESO or GW2 you get decades of "new content" all at once.
I want a good MMO, but I also don't want to pay a lot to play it properly.
Guild Wars 2
Guild Wars 2 is the only MMO that doesn't aggravate me.
You do have to buy the expansions, but the core game is free now.
I love wow but I don't want to pay ten euro a month even though I have time to play every 2 months
Warframe
"I think that the idea that the MMO crowd doesn't exist is belied by the number of players who are still in World of Warcraft"
I'm not saying the MMO crowd doesn't exist (though I do hold the opinion that trying to launch a new MMO in this day and age is a fool's errand - so, actually maybe I am saying that!). But this argument is really weak - WoW players aren't playing because they want "an MMO", they are playing because they want to play WoW. Either because they're already so deeply entrenched in it, or because they want to recapture the nostalgia of ages past (see the success of WoW Classic and various pirate servers). There is absolutely no reason to think all these WoW players have any interest in a random new and different MMO.
I am "deeply entrenched" because mythic raiding and m+ dungeons are fun. All the classical MMO features are just chores at this point, which is why it takes less effort to get through them every tier.
I miss classic wow. This is back before every piece of loot was was rolled with rng stats, sharding that demolished all sense of community, and class homogenization. The game will never be the same and I don't support blizzard anymore due to their actions.
They make a good point about how massive multiplayer games shouldn’t try to compete with wow, nor to try and implement every feature that wow has, but I think it goes beyond that. I think they need to question the pre existing assumptions of what an MMO is. Like, fundamentally, it’s a mass multiplayer online game, but so much of what gets associated with that concept is not really inherent to it.
Quests, bosses, grinding NPCs for equipment, ect ect. What the shape of content even looks like for these kinds of games.
There is so much potential in the concept of a big world with lots of players all interacting and it is held back by attempting to hew to a certain formula that looks very similar to WoW. Specifically the reliance on NPCs to fill out the world and to act as a source of resources.
Someone brought up foxhole and I think that’s a really good example. It is made by a small team(like… 10 people if I recall?) and it completely lacks a lot of the stuff normally expected in an MMO. No NPCs, no leveling or skill points, no quests or missions. All of the purposes those systems normally fulfill are handled through largely player driven dynamics. It’s a profoundly collaborative game built on team based PVP and an entirely player driven economy. Importantly, you are not playing a hero or unique character, nor collecting particularly valuable equipment overtime. You are cannon fodder, and you will die. In some ways, you are the NPC. Some parts of it definitely share heritage from the genre, but it expands on a lot of stuff that I feel is under developed in most.
It’s a departure from the normal formula and I think it shows that the potential audience for MMOs is actually much larger than the current crop, as a lot of people who play were never into other MMOs. The genre has pigeonholed its self by attempting to chase an existing audience that are used to a certain dynamic, but there is so much more potential that is left on the table.
New World was super good. Amazon canned it when it was at its peak too.
Amazon canned it when it was at its peak too.
...what? Peak what, exactly?
What made it worth playing? I never played it but it looked like a fairly buggy, uninspired cookie-cutter MMO to me, so I'd be really interested to hear what I was missing.
The audio was fantastic, chopping trees and mining ore was rewarding just hearing it. Visually it was beautiful. The combat was super good too, not just hitting numbers on the keyboard. Wars were a blast if you were in a decent company. Dungeons and OPR (basically a two team hold the positions death match) were solid. The server population issues they had due to the architecture took forever to overcome though and queues could be long. They never fully overcame this.
I never got into WoW or really any others before. The only other one was Wild Star because it was quirky and unique and also had a combat system that wasn’t just pushing keys and made positioning matter, but new world took it up another notch from there.
I'm so glad that you mentioned WildStar, because that was the last MMO that I fell in love with. I watched all my old stream videos recently and had a moment.
Which is exactly why I didn't buy it. I don't trust megacorporations to keep these services running if they don't become successful at the level of peak fortnite, and neither should anyone else.
New world looked great but the fact that Amazon was footing the bill meant it's days were limited.
I got a good few thousand hours out of it over the years and the community I found there kept me sane through COVID lockdowns - sad to see it go, but happy for what it provided while it was around
I don't want MMOs.
Same. I actively avoid them.
Yeah kinda feeling this too. Certainly not traditional ones anyway. If you just mean online game with a lot of people, sure. Maybe. But I don't necessarily care about there just being lots of people, in an online game I want meaning connection with other players.
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