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A 10-month Commerce Department probe concluded Meta could view all WhatsApp messages in unencrypted form

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[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 198 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

"The claim that WhatsApp can access people's encrypted communications is patently false," Meta spokesperson Andy Stone said. He added that the bureau had already "disavowed this purported investigation, calling its own employee's allegations unsubstantiated."

I can't help but notice that in response to people's concern that Meta may be able to read people's messages, the Meta spokesperson responds that WhatsApp can't read them. A little bit of administrative juggling on Meta's end so that the team with access to the messages doesn't fall within the WhatsApp department, and both claims could be true.

[-] IratePirate@feddit.org 34 points 1 month ago

But Facebook/"Meta" would never lie.

Oopsie! Hang on, they even lie to lawmakers in case buying them off fails? Bummer!

Seriously: this company needs to be scoured from the face of the earth.

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[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

C'mon. It's not that hard. You're making the assumption that Andy Stone is telling the truth, with a gotchya astrict.

What if......the big business just......LIES???

[-] illi@piefed.social 12 points 1 month ago

The best lies have some kind of truth in them. Half truths are way more effective than complete falsehoods.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

a gotchya astrict

Asterisk? This little fella? *

[-] count_duckula@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 month ago

Nah, probably meant the other little fella - Asterix the Gaul.

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[-] Whostosay@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Are you telling me that the company that hosts "free" not propaganda services and has been caught repeatedly stealing all possible data including data about women and presumably girls' periods and has been caught in one of the largest data manipulation scandals this century could be betraying my trust with their "vawwy vawwy pwivate and vawwy vawwy encwypted" closed source and again operated by the most sinister motherfuckers of all time messaging app????

I. Am. Shocked.

I'm also looking for a bridge on the cheap if you guys have any leads.

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[-] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 79 points 1 month ago

Here's the original reporting, instead of another website's summary of Bloomberg's actual report:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-04-28/us-ends-investigation-into-claims-whatsapp-chats-aren-t-private

https://archive.is/sGE3e

So it sounds like the agent was investigating allegations, from content moderation contractors, that Meta could access the contents of WhatsApp messages, and came to the conclusion that yes, Meta could.

There are a few possibilities here.

  1. Meta does have full plain text access to all Whatsapp messages, but guards that access very closely. Although the clients seem to generate E2EE keys for each session, somehow they're leaking those keys to Meta's servers somewhere, and the closed source code sufficiently hides that so that there's no whistleblower or security researcher able to detect this definitively.
  2. Meta has a secret wiretap functionality where they can compromise the E2EE keys somehow, but uses it only for narrow cases. This helps keep the functionality secret, because security researchers and other reviewers may never see the functionality in action.
  3. Meta allows users to report objectionable content in the threads they're already part of. The reporting function either forwards the E2EE key itself, or all the plaintext data, that gives content moderators access to the underlying message contents. The contractor whistleblowers and the federal agent investigating these allegations simply got it wrong, and misunderstood the technical process of how the plaintext messages end up in the content moderator's possession.

Meta claims that it's #3. They acknowledge they have plaintext access to messages when a party to the thread presses the report button.

This unnamed federal agent believes it's #1, after 10 months of investigation, and sent out an email to other investigators that they should look into that possibility.

I'm skeptical of #1, simply because I don't believe that conspiracies to keep that kind of stuff secret can be maintained. It's not just that there would be technically skilled whistleblowers who have actual access to the code (not the non-technical content moderator contractors who review the content), but a weakness in such an important and widely used protocol would attract all sorts of hackers, state sponsored or otherwise.

But option #2 might explain everything we've seen so far. Full wiretap capability that is rarely used and very tightly controlled.

[-] flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

Thanks for the sane interpretation of the situation!

[-] codenamekino@lemmy.world 79 points 1 month ago

I'm just here to satisfy my confirmation bias, but my question all along has been this: how does Meta simultaneously satisfy their claims of both E2EE and content moderation on WhatsApp? I can't say that I've done anything even close to a deep dive on the topic, but those two things seem mutually exclusive.

[-] HereIAm@lemmy.world 27 points 1 month ago

I don't particularly know much about this specific topic but, it would be trivial for them to read what's seen in the app. The encrypted part is only during transfer of a message, your app is still decrypting it to plain texts, and meta can just read the message at that point.

[-] theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world 61 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The most important question to ask when evaluating end-to-end encryption: who manages the keys?

If Facebook manages all of the keys and is responsible for telling which public key belongs to who, then of course Facebook can read every message.

[-] lemonhead2@lemmy.world 37 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

oh lol. the trust chain is harder and harder to verify these days. i miss the good old days where I would write emails in vi and encrypt with gpg.

I still write emails with vi. but I lost touch with the one other friend I had who knew how to use gpg ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

[-] SnotFlickerman 14 points 1 month ago

Cory Doctorow still uses pgp if you email him, I think his key is on his website, IIRC

[-] qprimed@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

even better - as far as I am aware the client isn't open (and even if it were, is your installed build from the same source?).

so, even if the keys are local only, who says there isn't a hidden API that simply sends locally decrypted content back to a remotely calling endpoint?

[-] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago

Or steganographically leaks back the keys ...

[-] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 1 month ago

No. Shit.

People who say Facebook (now Meta) paid $21 billion (with a B) for WhatsApp to be charitable. Even though the original creators have distanced themselves from it after the acquisition.

Fun fact: every forum running phpBB, Invision, or vBulletin (as in, traditional Internet forums) can read your DMs in plaintext. They're unencrypted in the SQL database. However, the forum's Admin Control Panel (ACP) does not provide this functionality. All three have mods that add it in. So imagine you run a forum. You have a hidden forum where only your mods and admins can interact. No one else can even see it. You could have a whole other one that is just all the DMs. I'm not sure about social networks. But I know if you have command-line access to the SQL database, you can query a user and see everything that user has put in the database. Public messages... and private ones. So a lot of the forums started saying "Personal messages" or "Direct messages" instead of "Private messages" because they were never private.

Disbelieve anyone who says they can't see your private or personal messages.

[-] FaygoBoozer@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

I can confirm this, I used to run several phpbb and (pirated) vbulletin juggalo forums and when I found out this was possible I read everyone's DMs for funzies.

Lotttts of requests for noodz.

Since you are a self proclaimed professional, what percentage of nude requests were answered positively, and is it as close to zero as I expect?

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[-] thatradomguy@lemmy.world 36 points 1 month ago

The fact that Trump's own goon uses Signal and not WhatsApp should probably tell you all you need to know about using WhatsApp.

[-] QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

Yes, not to mention that their security breach on Signal was of their own making. Some moron invited a member of the press to their chat. XD

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 33 points 1 month ago

I never assumed that this presumed "end to end encryption" was secure in any way. The key exchange either runs over Meta servers, and they just log them, or the client software simply surrenders the key (maybe always, maybe on demand) together with the data stream that still runs over Meta servers.

[-] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

They can log anything they want and have nothing useful, if the encryption protocol is sound.
Have a look at how TLS is designed, if you want to know more.

You can have the soundest encryption in the world but if they have access to the keys it doesnโ€™t matter, they can see everything.

[-] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

But the key exchange is not the issue then.
Access to private keys is.
If the host system, on which the key exchange runs, is compromised, you're toast.

[-] Railcar8095@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Where's the private key? I can get a new phone, log with WhatsApp and download all the historical messages without intruducing any additional password or key.

I assume they have all the required data too.

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[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

I know my way around cryptography, therefor I am skeptical. If push comes to shove, they can simply command the Whatsapp App to silently surrender the keys. Nobody would know, it is a closed source app and protocol, and they can hide what they are doing inside the (probably) TLS encrypted stream.

[-] HeyJoe@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

I also never assumed it was fully secure either. Like sure it could be secure to hackers since they would still need the keys, but if anyone ever thought Meta was somehow not going to allow themselves access is just crazy and I am shocked anyone thought differently. On top of this they absolutely share all data with the government, im just not sure if it's by request or full access anytime.

Sadly, everyone i know still uses it so im kind of forced to but at the same time the chats are all dumb anyway so whatever and enjoy reading them Meta employees.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Just assume anything you're writing online, on any app, any website, any social media platform... ANYTHING is being tracked now.

We learned from the FBI's disclosure of the Guthrie kidnapping video that every camera and microphone are surveilling you and feeding that data into a government database without a warrant, so why would you think your apps are doing anything different?

[-] cyberduck@aussie.zone 28 points 1 month ago

If you can't see the code (closed source) then treat it as they're lying and it isn't end to end encrypted

[-] CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 month ago

It's decided. No more arms deals on Whatsapp for this guy.

[-] themurphy@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 month ago

So the truth is they store messages encrypted. But what they also do is storing the private keys for those messages.

Meaning they technically do it. But it's like locking the door for someone who also has the keys.

[-] rmuk@feddit.uk 9 points 1 month ago

Creating the secure key pairs used for true E2EE requires a mathematical foundation of true randomness, which can only be achieved on a device by working with the OS, through an API call, to get a random seed that includes pseudorandom numbers from the device's sensors. There was a post a while back where a dev used ADB to read the API calls used during WhatsApp account setup that showed that no such calls were made, meaning the keys were either totally predictable, or were actually generated by Meta themselves.

[-] HeyJoe@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

When I read the article about cloudflare using lava lamps (and other things at other locations) to create randomness I had no idea it had to be that crazy to be random.

https://youtu.be/1cUUfMeOijg

[-] rmuk@feddit.uk 6 points 1 month ago

It actually doesn't need to be so elaborate. Even a video camera with the lens cap on generates more than enough entropy. Your phone can mix together predictable but unique variations - time of day, free memory, CPU serial number, battery level - with less predictable physical sensory - light level, gyroscope, barometer, last touch points, nearby MAC addresses - to create far more on-board randomness than anyone realistically needs.

That said, the whole Cloudflare lava lamp thing is very cool and also gets people talking.

[-] Upgrayedd1776@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

definitely cool, i want a wall like that. it would be a lot better than the one i kept tipping over and burning shit with in my tiny room at the time

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[-] osanna@lemmy.vg 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If you still use faecesbook products, you're an idiot.

[-] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

I'm gonna borrow FaecesBook from you - that's hilarious!

[-] osanna@lemmy.vg 4 points 1 month ago

my brain automatically makes it faecesbook now. I've been saying it for a decade or more.

[-] YaksDC@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

I guess you don't live in Europe, you can't escape it here.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 9 points 1 month ago

bold of you to assume meta respect data privacy, they have been all in on datamining for a while aready

[-] MrSulu@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago

Settle down. There's nothing to see here. Move along quietly and please remain calm....... /s

[-] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

And here I thought the E2EE of Whatsapp was based on the one developed by Signal or at least so they say.
But I guess it's hard to inspect anything, if it's no open source software.
I'm so glad there's SIgnal and a lot of my contacts use it.
Back when it was called Textsecure it was a different story.

[-] LifeLikeLady@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Anyone who thinks Facebook would give you end to end encryption is a fucking fool.

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[-] purplemonkeymad@programming.dev 3 points 1 month ago

So that ad campaign that they ran saying no one but you can see your messages. That was a bit strange that they were pushing it, since no one appeared to be saying otherwise, might be a lie? I never would have guessed.

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this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2026
811 points (100.0% liked)

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