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submitted 3 months ago by Valnao@sh.itjust.works to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] celeste@kbin.earth 42 points 3 months ago

The evidence that ketogenic diet might help with schizophrenia symptom remission comes from two case reports that Palmer published in Schizophrenia Research in 2019. When discussing them, Palmer was quick to emphasise that “yes, it’s only two”, and that “case reports don’t prove anything. They’re not controlled. They come with tremendous amounts of bias.” But, Palmer noted, that can be important for generating hypotheses about what treatments might work. Palmer thought it was valuable to publish these case reports because remission of schizophrenia symptoms is incredibly rare.

Two case studies! The scientist quoted knows that it means nothing! Don't read one article that might show something that confirms your bias and go "this is real."

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 3 points 3 months ago

wasnt there a recent post, rebuking ketogenic diet is not much of difference.

[-] RoidingOldMan@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago

Who would have guessed you could cure mental illness back thousands of years by eating exclusively chicken.

[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 months ago

Why would literally anyone listen to this coke-fried man whose had actual fucking worms crawling around in his actual fucking brain?

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 3 months ago

also HEROIN damaged brain, who drove his family member to OD on it, plus cocaine, and decades of parasite exposure. and he resulted in 80+ somoan Dead children by advising them to not take the MEASLES VACCINE.

[-] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago

Nothing this snake oil salesman says is ever backed by any evidence.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 3 months ago

thats DR.OZs job.

[-] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago

Even beyond like actual facts and evidence proving this wrong, I have one fundamental question for all these nutcases making wild claims about diet: why the fuck would X diet do Y thing?

Like what about eating more meat and fat & being in ketosis could possibly have any effect on schizophrenia, of all things.

It doesn't even make sense on any basic level. Could there theoretically be some counterintuitive thing that would cause an effect? Maybe, sure. But come on - these wacky claims don't even pass the sniff test.

[-] Kirp123@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Why would anyone take anything seriously from a man who had actual brain worms.

[-] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

Maybe going keto would grow them some extra brain cells so they could realize it's a bad idea

[-] celeste@kbin.earth 4 points 3 months ago

I do think it'd be interesting to do a real study on it. Keto can reduce seizures, and after study it might turn out the same mechanism of action that helps there helps with schizophrenia symptoms. I hope there's a more extensive study being planned out there.

[-] xep@discuss.online 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The good news is there are studies being done!

There is a lot of co-morbidity between Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, depression, and Schizoaffective disorder. Epilepsy might've been in this list as well. The research in this WRT to nutrition is known as Metabolic Psychiatry and the book that Dr Palmer has written is Brain Energy. It is a fascinating read. Other notable resources include Dr Georgia Ede, Dr. Bret Scher, and Dr. Iain Campbell.

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[-] paultimate14@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

Kennedy Jr’s statement probably referred to the Harvard psychiatrist Dr Christopher Palmer, who said he has “never once used the word ‘cure’ in my work. I have never claimed to have cured any mental illness, including schizophrenia,” but added: “I have talked about ketogenic diet being a very powerful treatment, even to the point of inducing remission of symptoms of schizophrenia.”

RFK is a crackpot moving way too fast. At the same time, The Guardian is equally misleading in its headline here.

There IS evidence that Schizophrenia, like a lot of other disorders (epilepsy, Alzheimer's, Bipolar, etc) have links to the microbiome. Here is a paper analyzing various studies into keto as an effective treatment for schizophrenia. It's not perfect, it's not for everyone, and more research is needed.

Technically the Guardian is correct when they say there is no evidence that keto can "cure", but I find it very misleading when there is a decent bit of evidence that it is an effective treatment.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

I've suspected for a while now that a good chunk of common health issues might be caused by malnutrition. Like energy needs are being met and/or exceeded, but not necessarily the case for each nutrient.

Like I've started to recognize when I'm protein deficient. I get a headache and general unwell feeling. I'll have an appetite for things with protein but it doesn't just feel like hunger.

And personally, if I'm feeling depressed and unmotivated to do anything, even what's usually fun, I can resolve that with a vitamin b-complex supplement (usually I take vitamin D and K2 with it, so those could be playing a role), and if that doesn't have me feeling better (as in normal, not just "less depressed") within 15 minutes or so, I also take a magnesium supplement. This may or may not work for anyone else (it requires that your depression be caused by b and/or magnesium deficiency), but it has consistently worked for me since 2020, when it helped get over the exhaustion that might have been long covid.

Micronutrients are essential for many different body functions and I think it's easy to miss some if you don't have a lot of variety in your regular diet, especially if you mostly eat processed stuff where the process could inadvertently remove or change the nutrients into something we can't absorb.

I agree that one's biome can also play a big role, though I think nutrient intake (both what you consume and what you absorb) and gut biome health can end up in a vicious cycle because those microbes also need the right nutrients to stay healthy and can be exposed to substances that are fine for us but toxic to them. I haven't looked in a while, but this was my objection to all the studies that "showed" glyphosate was safe, as the ones I saw were mostly about how it doesn't react with any of our own bio-processes, but no information about whether that's the same for the bacteria we have a symbiotic relationship with.

[-] paultimate14@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Yeah I think that's an important line to walk: the conversation between the body and the mind. A lot of people in my life seem to really struggle with body awareness. They wait for the signals from their bodies to reach a certain threshold before paying attention. It's like waiting until your car's low fuel light is flashing before starting to look for a gas station.

On the other hand, you can go too far... But maybe that's a good thing? The placebo effect is real. Any time I take supplements, especially when the science is mixed, I wonder whether the supplement actually works or if it's just placebo. But at the end of the day I don't care which. I still take my vitamin D in the winter, my vitamin C when I start to feel a cold coming on.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Yeah, I think at this point I do get the placebo effect first, pretty much immediately after taking the vitamin b-complex, as it works faster than I'd expect my body to really access those nutrients (though it is water soluable, so maybe it does start getting absorbed immediately), and I have had times where it feels like just the B is going to do the trick but then the tiredness returns a few mins later and I add the magnesium.

My approach to supplements in general is an assumption that I generally get most of what I need from my diet (which is better these days than it used to be earlier in my adult life), but that I'm probably not meeting all the needs consistently, so I'll supplement it occasionally, either with a dose of multivitamin when I'm not feeling like anything is missing or with specific ones if I'm experiencing potential deficiency symptoms. I don't want to supplement into overload, which can be as bad or worse than deficiency.

Also gotta watch out for the scam supplements, or ones suggested based on single properties without considering other consequences of them.

Eg, a little while ago, I bought some bromelain on a whim after seeing a claim it could dissolve eye floaters. Before taking one, I realized I had acted too quickly in buying them and did more reading and found out that even if it can get past the blood brain barrier and into the eyes (which is dubious at best), there's nothing to stop it from dissolving other proteins inside the eyes, ones that aren't just minor annoyances (speaking about my own situation, I understand floaters can get much worse than just annoying), and end up hurting your vision.

[-] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 9 points 3 months ago

Has anyone found evidence behind the claim that RJK Jr can integrate novel information?

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 7 points 3 months ago

someone has been brain damaged by cocaine and heroin should not be giving medical advice, and likely a parasirtic infection in his youth(before his divorce)

[-] Chaotic_Altruist@lemmy.zip 7 points 3 months ago

Unless I'm mistaken he doesn't even make money off the keto diet, this is just stupidity for stupidity's sake

[-] santa@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 months ago

He makes money off of stupidity, though; his and others.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 3 months ago

anti-vaxxers were an UNTAPPED grifting "natural resources", before COVID, it always existed in the fringe and always were midwestern moms/families who ironically believe in chronic lyme too.

[-] Carnelian@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

It’s more insidious than that. In general, meat forward diet influencers are entry points into the conservative pipeline. You start out seeking to improve your health and very quickly end up exposed to jordan peterson types who will ominously warn you of the “normalization of inadequacy” among the general public and suggest progressively more conservative content as a pathway to achieving your full potential.

So in essence, though he may not seem to directly benefit, by highlighting these types of diets he knows plenty of people will hop on youtube or whatever and get algorithm’d right back into the broader MAHA/MAGA sphere

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago

I really want to shove Peterson down a flight of stairs right into one of those industrial grinders they use to mulch engine blocks.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 3 months ago

the gym bros, culture is also pretty conservatives, they follow UFC, and by extension roegan, and other pseudointellectual. J peterson is a fully paid shill for Putin, ever since he went to russia to GET a coma from them.

[-] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Look at the last year.

Now imagine permanently living in a conservative America.

That's a reality we're actually facing because Americans can't get their shit together.

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[-] Formfiller@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

I give him one thing that keto diet works for dropping weight but it’s hard to sustain

[-] nwtreeoctopus@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago

It's a brutally boring diet after awhile.

[-] Formfiller@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

I lost like thirty pounds but I started having weird and elaborate pancakes cravings and dreams. It was weird

[-] nwtreeoctopus@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

Basically the same here, but it was pizza crust dreams.

[-] hopesdead@startrek.website 5 points 3 months ago

Don’t those who experience seizures eat a keto diet?

[-] celeste@kbin.earth 2 points 3 months ago

It's a treatment for people who don't respond to medicine.

https://www.epilepsy.com/treatment/dietary-therapies/ketogenic-diet

It's pretty interesting! I listened to a medical history podcast about keto years ago.

https://maximumfun.org/transcripts/sawbones/transcript-sawbones-ketogenic-diet Apparently the diet started as a treatment for epilepsy. Way back in history people noticed that if you were inclined to have seizures and were starving, you had fewer seizures. In the early 1900s there were experiments to figure out how to reduce seizures without, you know, starving them to death. keto!

I wouldn't be shocked if keto had some kind of effect on the brain that helps with schizophrenia, but there's no real info yet.

[-] xep@discuss.online 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

There are an increasing number of case studies for Bipolar Disorder, as well as pilot trials. If you're interested, there is a YouTube channel called Keto Bipolar with interviews that you could take a look at.

[-] michaelalf@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Interesting. Just to correct you though, BPD is Borderline Personality Disorder not Bipolar.

[-] xep@discuss.online 2 points 3 months ago

Thank you for the correction, I'll edit my post.

[-] paperdoll@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 months ago

As a bipolar person I tried the keto diet. It made me super manic and I ended up in the hospital so ymmv

[-] xep@discuss.online 1 points 3 months ago

I'm sorry to hear that. It makes sense that everything I've read on the topic says it's best done with the help of a psychiatrist as it is a medical intervention.

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[-] MiDaBa@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago

Bobby may himself be evidence that his diet actually causes mental disorders

[-] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 months ago

It just keeps the brain worms satiated and quiet for a brief moment.

[-] ramenshaman@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

I'm keto and I don't have schizophrenia so it must be true.

/s

[-] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

"Experts, schmexperts. I'm on the salt and beef diet, and that cures everything!"

-- "wellness" morons, probably

[-] texture@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

obviously false claim has no proof, wowzers. lol

[-] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 months ago

Isn't a keto diet dangerous without a prior check-up?

[-] Zier@fedia.io 1 points 3 months ago

"RFK Jr’s claim keto diet can cure schizophrenia" But RFK jr is living proof that it's not true or he would no longer be schizo. Go away raw milk boy.

[-] metallic_substance@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

I don't know what you're trying to say here

[-] axexrx@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

RFK follows a keto diet, hes saying that proof against this claim, because he acts like a schizophrenic.

I was going to make kind of the same joke, but phrase as

By republican math, I think RFK just admitted hes a schizophrenic

[-] Zier@fedia.io 2 points 3 months ago

A well roasted, sun-dried schizophrenic.

[-] daychilde@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

No evidence behind RFK Jr’s claim

Ima stop ya right there… heh

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this post was submitted on 25 Feb 2026
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