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submitted 2 days ago by Yliaster@lemmy.world to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

Proton VPN/mail. It's often recommended as being safe, but I'm not so sure.

It has servers in Israel. Ties to Israel are never a good thing. Palantir, Epstein, etc are tied to Israel, and Israel also is known for its surveillance. It is also true that it's completely legal there for them to access and monitor any and all information that passes through VPNs or networks there.

I'm looking for a safe alternative that's privacy-conscious and isn't linked to Israel. Both mail and vpn (it's fine if they're separate). Please let me know if you guys know.

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[-] chloroken@lemmy.ml 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Complete bullshit by a trolling OP. Israel is cancer, but OP is doing an obvious smear on Proton to try to agitate leftists. Case in point: Mullvad and most other VPNs have exit nodes in Israel.

It is a dumbfuck corporate decision that has absolutely no more bearing on your VPN's privacy than routing through the US or Australia. You are truly completely confused.

Also "its" doesn't have an apostrophe when used ad a possessive, you fucking idiot.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 32 minutes ago* (last edited 32 minutes ago)

Just because mullvad and most other VPNs do something, doesn't mean it's good.

Israel is known for a level of surveillance that most other countries aren't.

The rest of what you've said is just ad hominem I'm not interested in.

[-] rushmonke@ttrpg.network 2 points 22 hours ago

Do you use a CPU?

I hate to break it to you buddy...

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

Unideal? Yes

Does that mean I stop trying altogether to minimize surveillance? No.

[-] unknowablenight@piefed.social 22 points 1 day ago

Having exit nodes for their VPN is not the same as collaborating with the government. There is no evidence that the Israeli government has access to any of their information, their servers are hosted in Switzerland.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't running a VPN to a region require you to have a server in that region?

[-] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 48 points 2 days ago

Having servers in Israel means you are materially tied to them now? Making this jump to liken it to Epstein or Palantir is kinda wild imo

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Doing any business with or in Israel is being materially tied to Israel.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

They don't need to be materially linked; they are digitally linked. Israel allows it's communication and intelligence agencies complete legal access to any communications through VPNs that operate in it's area.

I don't want that surveillance.

[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Having servers in Israel means you are materially tied to them now?

Yes, absolutely. Profiting from servers under genocidal control is literally being materially tied to genocide.

[-] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Like I hear what you're saying. I'm on the fuck Israel train as much as everyone but how does them hosting servers in that region support genocide? Are they giving money to the Israeli government? Defending the IDF?

Like there is McDonald's in Israel does that mean McDonald's is complicit in genocide? (I actually don't know if they give money to support Israel but my point is more broad than that and might be a bad example)

Edit: Also for the McD's example I guess they make money off of Israelis but I still posit that is different to a large degree with being complicit in genocide.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

It's not about supporting genocide that I'm concerned about over here per se (though it's obviously not a good look), it's the fact that the region is known for surveillance through any comms that enter it.

Unrelated, but yes, people against genocide literally boycott any businesses that operate in Israel, including McDonalds. BDS movement, for example.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 1 points 18 hours ago

Fuck McDonald's too tbh

[-] manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

hosting servers in that region support genocide?

yes, it's occupied land, it's not like those servers are in tunnels in Gaza, paying fees to Palestinians

It's the same in many places, and more often than not israel is held up as a special example

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[-] basilisa@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Bad news, the sun shines in Israel and provides illegal settlers with vitamin D therefore it must have ties to genocide. BOYCOTT THE SUN!!!!

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

It's not about genocide.

It's about surveillance, which is fully legal in Israel.

There are other regions that don't conduct surveillance of all VPNs and comms. That's better.

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[-] Scipitie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 day ago

I have my issues with proton because of its CEO and some weird decisions for their product lone and don't use them at all. I.e. I won't defend this company.

Such a claim without source and explanation or interpretation of assumed implications are pure fear mongering.

Because of this: my advice is to decouple your privacy concerns and thoughts from politics in the first degree (rhetoric and hearsay). Base it ok policies, observable behavior, audits, laws and so on..your example: exit nodes for VPNs don't have an impact on security at all in neither direction. Hosting infrastructure there would (i.e. it would increase potential access and put the infrastructure under additional legal requirements).

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

The observable behavior is the fact that Israel allows it's communication and intelligence agencies complete legal access to access and monitor any info out of VPNs and other digital social info/comms.

That's been sourced; Israel is known for its surveillance. I'm not sure why that's so controversial.

This isn't fear-mongering, this isn't assumption.

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[-] gtr@programming.dev 5 points 1 day ago

Ties to Israel are never a good thing.

I think we're on the same page but you might be exaggerating a bit here. Everything is connected in this world.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Let's be more specific.

Anything that gives money, power, or influence to Israel is never a good thing. They need to be boycotted at all levels.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

Then why boycott anything. Why use privacy-conscious alternatives. Everything is connected, afterall.

[-] North@lemmy.org 1 points 16 hours ago

You can at least try to minimize the information that they squeeze out of you. It's either that you can give least amount of information such as just device you use, or whether you use Google or not, etc. or you could let them know every single detail in your life, everything you do, everywhere you go, even everything you think. That's what this community is about. It's not about being an alien to the world but minimizing the invasion of our privacy as much as is possible.

And many people do actually boycott everything, they quit all electronic devices and live the old school way, away from highly urbanized or metropolitan areas. If that's what you want, be a hermit like them.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 40 minutes ago

Yeah that is what I meant, I'm guessing you meant to reply to the other guy, not me?

[-] Concur6053@lemmy.today 18 points 2 days ago
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[-] doodoo_wizard@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Your ties to Israel claim is more than just a little specious.

Mullvad, widely considered the gold standard for privacy, allows the user to select a server in Israel.

Aside from that nugget, consider not worrying too much about perfect email secrecy. Email isnt private, was never intended to be and has many, many vectors of attack which are so well documented and in such common use that ISPs have attacked email simply to promote end users running their service instead of the competition.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

Mullvad doing something — even if it's reknown — doesn't automatically make it's actions good.

Israel conducts surveillance of any VPN communications of any that exist in the region. This is fully legal there. This is a threat to privacy. You'd need to let me know how that isn't the case, not that X or Y company also hosts a server in the region.

Re: mail, not looking for perfect, just better than Gmail, ideally FOSS.

[-] doodoo_wizard@lemmy.ml 2 points 17 hours ago

I apologize for not being clearer. Even in my relative youth and ignorance I make broad assumptions about others understanding of the recent histoy of VPNs and omit stuff I think is simply known because naturally everyone who would post on the privacy board has been keeping up with privacy and security news for the last decade.

I made another reply that explains in detail why and how mullvad can be trusted in this situation. Hopefully it’s a little less scattered, but I can clarify anything that seems wrong or weird.

The point I was trying to make about mail was that you’re better off treating it as a postcard that anyone can read than seeking a privacy respecting service. That simple change will improve your posture because you will no longer be communicating private matters in a medium that isn’t private.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 29 minutes ago* (last edited 27 minutes ago)

I've only recently started looking into privacy so much of it goes over my head.

I don't use mails for communication, but I'd just like to limit the amount of information/tracking that corporate overlords can collect of me if I can help it (subscriptions mostly and the demographic information they imply, I suppose).

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[-] Egonallanon@feddit.uk 17 points 2 days ago

Do you have information on proton's Israel links? I know they used radware several years ago but no longer do.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

If you open the app Israel is literally listed as a server. It's not hard to find.

[-] Egonallanon@feddit.uk 2 points 16 hours ago

That's it? they've got some metal hosted in the country somewhere? I was expecting more.

Looking through the thread it seems you're very keen on the end of the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people and privacy which is good but going after proton won't help on either front here.

If you want to help stop the murder look into the BDS and the organisations they're currently running boyoctts against and focus your efforts on those as those organisations are the ones propping up the Israeli state and allowing/assisting it to commit it's crimes. community action against targets that matter will have a far more meaningful effects than going after a handful of servers. To this end also look up Palestinian organisations where you live to work with. The Palestine Solidarity Campaign in the UK is good example.

And on the privacy side I feel you seem to miss the point of how VPNs work. If you avoid ever setting your exit point to Israel then Israel will never see your traffic and be able to surveil it. Unless you have some evidence that Proton's network has been compromised I can't see any technical reason to avoid using Proton or any other provider running endpoints in Israel.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 34 minutes ago

The focus on this post was primarily the surveillance and lack of privacy Israel is known for, though genocide is obviously not a good look either. Relating themselves to Israel in anyway does lower the company's reputation and the trust it inspires.

I am admittedly not tech-savvy so I'm not really able to understand the fine print myself, though if they conducted their operations within israel that'd definitely be alarming from a surveillance pov. I'm not sure it would register as merely "some metal" to me, if that were the case.

However I know they're in Switzerland and I don't have any idea how "exit Nodes" and the sort function.

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[-] Shabby4582@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

You have the ability to whip up this BS about proton, but a web search for “private email provider” was too much?

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

Why is it BS?

I did my research, I wanted community feedback for things I may have missed.

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[-] tyrant@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago
[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

I think mullvad has a server in Israel too

[-] tyrant@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago

I don't think having a server somewhere is necessarily a bad thing. If you choose to use that server it's up to you.

[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Not sure why people would downvote this completely reasonable question.

Unfortunately I don't know of any VPN services that actively oppose genocide. I would like to know as well.

It's part of the misery of living in the imperial core. The whole of capitalism is based on genocide, etc.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

Thank you. I'm baffled by how complacent people are to Israel's involvement.

They don't necessarily need to oppose the genocide but just not host any servers in the area (since that means they've access to it).

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[-] anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

There are plenty of problems with Proton, but since they have a VPN service it means they probably have an exit node in Israhell. I'm pretty sure any VPN that masks traffic as coming from Israhell will do the same. I'm not saying that it's not worth looking for one that doesn't do business in Israhell, it just might be hard to find. If you ever need to exit through that node, just make sure your encryption is maxed, with quantum encryption preferably, and avoid doing anything sensitive over that node.

[-] magic_smoke 6 points 1 day ago

Mullvad or ivpn for vpn, tutanota or posteo for mail.

Also stop looking at advertisements for privacy tools and services.

[-] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

Mullvad has Israeli servers.

Thanks for the other reccs though!

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this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2026
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