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submitted 1 week ago by alyaza@beehaw.org to c/technology@beehaw.org

Cars used to be entirely mechanical objects. With hard work and expertise, basically any old vehicle could be restored and operated: On YouTube, you can watch a man drive a 1931 Alvis to McDonald’s. But the car itself was stuck in time. If the automaker added a feature to the following year’s model, you just didn’t get it. Things have changed. My Model 3 has few dials or buttons; nearly every feature is routed through the giant central touch screen. It’s not just Tesla: Many new cars—and especially electric cars—are now stuffed with software, receiving over-the-air updates to fix bugs, tweak performance, or add new functionality.

In other words, your car is a lot like an iPhone (so much so that in the auto industry, describing EVs as “smartphones on wheels” has become a go-to cliché.) This has plenty of advantages—the improved navigation, the fart noises—but it also means that your car may become worse because the software is outdated, not because the parts break. Even top-of-the-line phones are destined to become obsolete—still able to perform the basic functions like phone calls and texts, but stuck with an old operating system and failing apps. The same struggle is now coming for cars.

Software-dependent cars are still new enough that it’s unclear how they will age. “It’s becoming the ethos of the industry that everyone’s promising a continually evolving car, and we don’t yet know how they’re going to pull that off,” Sean Tucker, a senior editor at Kelley Blue Book, told me. “Cars last longer than technology does.” The problem with cars as smartphones on wheels is that these two machines live and die on very different timescales. Many Americans trade in their phone every year and less than 30 percent keep an iPhone for longer than three years, but the average car on the road is nearly 13 years old. (Tesla didn’t respond to a request for comment about how its cars age.)

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[-] noxypaws@pawb.social 29 points 6 days ago

Bullshit article. Absolutely nothing about these problems is unique to EVs.

[-] causepix@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 days ago

Yeah its whole thing is that software gets outdated but like ...?

A) The latest ICE vehicles are equally tech'd out the wazoo, infotainment is 1:1 and mechanically they've even phased out gear shifters for ones completely controlled by electronics.

B) Software doesn't just stop working, it's hardware that becomes obsolete. Windows XP still runs the same as it ever did on the right hardware. There are servers around from the 90s that are still running software written in programming languages that don't exist anymore. If you always run the same software on the same hardware (as you do in automotive; most vehicles don't require more than 1-2 OTA updates per year, purely for bug fixes, and each one has a unique build specifically made for its hardware) there's no reason the two should ever lose compatibility.

C) Reliability is a major factor, taken into account by OEMs, that isn't nearly as high stakes for other tech sectors. An $800 phone dies in a few years, so what, the buyer has most likely already moved on to the next generation. A $35K car dies in a few years, you've probably lost a good number of buyers for life and definitely screwed them over in terms of resale value. Phone OS crashes, whatever, just restart it. Automotive software fails, well people's lives could very easily be in jeopardy.

It's not the modular, one-size-fits-all, update-till-the-hardware-fails, move-fast-break-things approach taken in lower-stakes computing. To liken it to a smartphone is completely ridiculous.

[-] noddy@beehaw.org 7 points 6 days ago

A) This. We should stop making this a EV thing. It's a modern car thing. Electric drivetrain in its essence, is a simple and reliable technology. Its everything else surrounding it thats the issue.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago

As if Jeep has figured out how to make a transmission last as long as the warranty. EVs are full of stupid gadgetry to design in obsolescence, because the industry knows from GM Trolley buses and the EV1 these vehicles last a lot longer.

[-] noxypaws@pawb.social 3 points 5 days ago

ICE cars are full of the same gadgetry, so once again this has fuck all to do with EVs.

[-] skaffi@infosec.pub 2 points 5 days ago

Indeed. It's probably more that increasingly more commodities are becoming "smart", including, but not limited to EVs. I think the reason people are specifically noticing or talking about the "ensmartification" of EVs is because cars are so vastly much more expensive than any other "smart" commodity that, and for most people, an investment of that size needs to be something you can either rely on working for X number of years, or at the very least insure yourself against that happening. But a gadget that can be turned hostile to you, at the drop of a single auto-update, is anything but reliable or dependable - and to my knowledge, becoming enshittified represents a "special" kind of broken, that you can't insure yourself against.

[-] noxypaws@pawb.social 3 points 5 days ago

Again. None of this is unique to EVs. Cars with internal combustion engines are at least equally as enshittified. At LEAST.

[-] skozzii@lemmy.ca 13 points 5 days ago

This article highlights a Tesla problem, not an EV problem.

The issue when you build a car around software is the software gets outdated and the the car is garbage.

Open sources EVs can be kept on the road just as easily as gas vehicles, as long as the gates are open to access the software.

Tesla has created their own issue, which will destroy them.

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 5 days ago

Other EV's have this problem too, so it isn't just a Tesla problem.

I think the main issue is what happens when software support ends. There are tons of industrial and medical equipment with outdated software that work well today, mainly because there is an air gap between their computers and the Internet. That air gap may need to be enforced onto cars as default in the future.

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 7 points 5 days ago

Every single person with a working brain has been complaining about making cars more and more "connected" and reliant on software - it makes the cars LESS safe and less repairable. Heater or AC won't work? Sorry, you gotta subscribe to unlock that. Any customer who looks at that and says "That makes sense, the company can't give that out for free" is a fucking idiot who deserves to be scammed out of their money

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 6 days ago
[-] Jolteon@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago

Pretty much all the cars that weren't made in the last decade or so.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Putting aside from the implied EV context, I'm not sure I'd go that far. They were repairable, but had a lot of proprietary design in them as well.

I would still go with one of the "legacy" manufacturers for myself, though.

[-] nolikeymachine@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago

This article is nonsense. However, electric cars have a lot to overcome before they're able to actually take over the whole market. Personally I don't know anyone who wants an electric car. They've already came out and said that they didn't have enough material for enough batteries for everyone in the US to have an electric car. The power grids can't support everyone having an electric car. The batteries usually go bad around 10-15 years old, which are very expensive to replace which also prevents people from wanting to buy one because it costs more to replace the battery than most vehicles cost to replace the engine and the engine lasts much longer than 10 years (unless it's a Hyundai or you don't change the oil). So a lot of people would just put it up for sale and try to buy another car but nobody would buy it for what it's worth. Again, they have a lot of issues to correct before everyone having an electric car is even remotely feasible.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 13 points 6 days ago

They’ve already came out and said that they didn’t have enough material for enough batteries for everyone in the US to have an electric car

17 million last year, 60 million in total globally. Where do you get your information.

The power grids can’t support everyone having an electric car.

sure they can. They support everyone having a toaster or a dryer.

The batteries usually go bad around 10-15 years old

300,000 -400,000 miles.

How many ICE cars make it to 400,000 miles?

prevents people from wanting to buy one because it costs more to replace the battery than most vehicles cost to replace the engine and the engine

This has been true in ICE for decades.

[-] nolikeymachine@lemmy.zip 2 points 5 days ago

Lmaooo your logic is so broken. The new new electric vehicle batteries are only rated for 15-20 years at the most. Not including the reduced lifespan that they have already been proven to have in the cold northern states and the issues that salty roads introduce to that. But just for arguments sake the average American drives 13,500 miles a year. Which comes to just over 200,000 miles in 15 years and 270,000 miles in 20 years. And that's IF you get the maximum life. I know PLENTY of people who have well over 300,000 miles on their gas vehicles and diesels last even longer. And the batteries cost around $10,000 on average but the range is $5,000 to $20,000. Engines range from $3,000 to $7,000 new and you have options for used or remanufactured for cheaper (which you can't do for batteries). And you can't literally just Google it, our electrical grids CANNOT currently support everyone having an electric car. Hell California can't even make it through the summer without grid outages due to overuse just from air conditioning lmao. If you just Google it you will find out that they have already done studies that show we need to put around 2 trillion to 4 trillion dollars into our electrical infrastructure (neighborhood transformers and house electrical panels) and main transmission grid systems in order to support everyone switching to electric vehicles. And it would take a few decades to get it all completely done. But realistically given we had the funding already setup we could likely have most people ready to go in about 15 -20 years and everyone done by 30 years. But we don't so it'll be at least 30. And once more and more people get electric vehicles and they improve designs and improve batteries, then it'll likely take less power and batteries will likely be cheaper and easier to make. And once all of that happens, then gas powered vehicles will start to completely fade away. But they'll still be the better option (for the general population) until all of those things happen

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago

Software-dependent cars are still new enough that it’s unclear how they will age.

Not at all. They die young.

[-] TachyonTele@piefed.social 133 points 1 week ago

The writer owns a tesla.
All communication disregarded.

[-] andyburke@fedia.io 40 points 1 week ago

Thank you for saving me the click. 🤝

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[-] 18107@aussie.zone 42 points 1 week ago

My 2012 Nissan Leaf is still doing fine.

Maybe it's not an issue with EVs, but with overbearing automakers.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 14 points 6 days ago

I really don't think it has much to do at all with ICE vs Electric vehicles. It just so happens that both transitions are going on at the same time. If anything, the electronics involved in running an average modern ICE vehicle are more complicated and more proprietary than an average electric vehicle.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 days ago

Tesla now makes the battery pack integral with their gigapress frames, so the batteries cannot be replaced. The cars are glued together over cast aluminum so yeah, it's a fucking iphone on wheels.

[-] dom@lemmy.ca 39 points 1 week ago

Isnt this all cars and not just evs?

[-] scytale@piefed.zip 24 points 1 week ago

I think what is being implied is EVs will have planned obsolescence even if they are perfectly working fine, like smartphones. Whether it be irreplaceable batteries, or software updates not being backward compatible. Regular cars are capable of lasting until they literally break down and die.

[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 28 points 1 week ago

Regular cars have been increasingly slaved to the on-board computer since the 1990s though.

You can only buy a few modern cars that don’t send constant telemetry back to the manufacturer, for example — just like televisions.

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[-] GreenCrunch@piefed.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 week ago

yeah, you can't really buy a car that doesn't have mobile data for "telemetry" (your driving data is sold to insurance companies)

even base trims get some phone app stuff, meaning there's the ability to execute commands on the car. so, if they really wanted, there's nothing stopping automakers from bricking your car, gas or EV, because they feel like it.

yipee...

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this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2025
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