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[-] Nobody@anarchist.nexus 120 points 1 week ago

Jesus was a manual laborer who became homeless to travel and preach his message. He made a point to spend time with lepers and the dregs of society, tax collectors being the worse of them all, because they served the occupying army.

His message was for everyone to love each other. It wasn’t open to interpretation. He made no exceptions. The less fortunate and oppressed were even more deserving of love and support from individuals and from the community.

[-] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 59 points 1 week ago

It wasn’t open to interpretation.

And yet, 2000 years later, here we are.

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 34 points 1 week ago

Thats what happens when people decide to interpret. Suddenly Jedus is white, despite that making NO sense, and the bible gets a sequal full of contradictions.

[-] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 week ago

Jedus Chrisp

[-] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The problem is that you actually read the Bible. These "Christians" never have. They interpret all right but read....nah.

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[-] DarkAri 16 points 1 week ago

You know how the Romans collected taxes in there less "Roman" providences? They have rich guys a contract to basically raise taxes and the rich guys payed up front what was owed for their division of it. Then they were allowed to collect taxes beyond what they paid the Romans to make a profit. This is mainly why they were hated so much. Many people might imagine some official going around and collecting taxes fairly, but the reality was they were operating much more like a Mafia extorting protection money out of people, and taking more then most people owed, often to peoples ruin or near ruin. You can also imagine how nepotic this becomes. People who have loyalty to the dominant ruling class would often catch a break, while those disfavored by the dominant faction would often be harassed.

[-] Rothe@piefed.social 8 points 1 week ago

It was open to interpretation from the very beginning. Exemplified in the fact that the four canonically approved gospels (we will ignore all the non-canon gospels) are contradicting each other in various ways.

Fine if you choose the interpretation in your comment, but perhaps it would be even better not to let your life be ruled by what random persons made up in their fan fiction 2000 years ago?

[-] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

I'm sorry but in which one of the "canonical" Gospels does Jesus say fuck the poor and love yourself more than anyone else?

[-] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I mean if you believe in God knowing everything and everything is happening because of his will, then that gives you the ability to rationalize everything, doesn't it?

Oh you have cancer? God gave it to you, if you didn't deserve it he'd have cured it. Done, use that everywhere: poor, homeless, immigrant, race, sick, traffic, lightening, flood, airplane crash, school shooting, ....

That's why blind faith is dangerous. And the idea of afterlife because they just do whatever now.

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[-] MTZ@lemmy.world 69 points 1 week ago

That was a huge plot point in the new South Park.

[-] ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world 52 points 1 week ago

I'm European. My mother tried to get me into Christianity. When I was 7 or 8 I asked "If God created everything, then who created God?" I got no answer, ever since that moment, I didn't want to be religious. My mother tried until I was 14. It failed.

Also, I find american Christians weird. They twist and contort Christianity into something to suit their ideological needs, racism, homophobia, capitalism, nationalism, unilateralism, etc.

[-] Starski@lemmy.zip 39 points 1 week ago

That's not just Americans that do that... That's pretty much anywhere with any religion.

[-] glorkon@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago

And don't forget, those are the people who tell us atheists that "without the Bible, where do you get your morals from?"

Well, we can see what these biblical morals are - you mentioned it: homophobia, racism etcetera. It makes people hateful, while claiming it is charity and compassion.

Religion poisons everything.

[-] Instigate@aussie.zone 28 points 1 week ago

People who ask that question are really telling on themselves; they’re saying that without religion they would have no qualms stealing, murdering, and raping. They’re very dangerous people.

[-] glorkon@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

Oh absolutely. That's the scariest part about this whole line of argument.

Christians do not believe people are inherently good. We are all sinners. And even scarier, you can be excused for anything if you confess. Three Bloody Marys and one Hello Dolly and you're golden. Still get into heaven.

The whole religion is just a thinly veiled framework designed to allow bad people to do bad things - and even make good people do bad things.

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[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

“If God created everything, then who created God?”

There's a lot of places where one can poke holes into faith/the concept of a God, but I don't think this is one.

The reason being that God's existence doesn't actually change anything about the question or the answer. You can rephrase it as "If everything came from the Big Bang, what came before the Big Bang and what created the preconditions of the Big Bang?"

So you could use the same argument to "disprove" literally any world view, including science, or even hypothetical scenarios like the simulation theory ("If we live in a simulation, who is running the simulation?").

But you can not only "disprove" every potential answer to "where does everything come from", but you can also rephrase the question to "If atoms are made of quarks, what are quarks made of, and what are their components made of?" or to "If there's an end to the universe, what is outside of it?"

If you are smart enough though, you will see that none of that is actually disproving anything, because if you rephrase the question further it becomes "Why don't we know everything?" and that's a rather simple-minded question to ask. One befitting of a 7 or 8 year old, but not really of an adult.

Before the circumnavigation and the discovery and charting of all of the world, people also didn't know what was on the other side of the planet and still it would have been dumb to doubt what we knew (e.g. that the British Isles existed) only because there were large white spots on the map elsewhere.

[-] Bigfishbest@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

The answer that any person who has thought about it and not rejected the idea is: If a being that has created and shaped our universe exists, it exists (at least partly) outside of our universe. Like a programmer doesn't have to follow in his life the limitations of his code in programming, such an entity's existence would be so far outside our modes of thinking that "who created him?" would simply fall flat as a question.

To begin to answer such a question one would have to have some knowledge of the plane of existence where the divine resides, and as that is outside the realm of what we can understand through physics and the natural world we live in, the question becomes unanswerable.

The question then becomes, can something exist on another plane of existence? The answer is of course, we can't examine anything outside our universe, so, the answer must be, we don't or can't know.

I suppose then, the next question becomes, do you want to believe that there is something /someone outside the natural universe that gives meaning to our existence?

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[-] sobchak@programming.dev 45 points 1 week ago

They often operate on the "just-world fallacy" too. I.e. if people are poor, starving, arrested, deported, raped, it's because they deserve it.

[-] Bosht@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago

'Its all part of gods plan sweetie'. Had my mom feed me this line when I wanted to help a homeless person

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[-] camelbeard@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

Sometimes I wish I could do that, just ignore all logic and believe what you want.

So those people starving in Africa? Oh no God's plan.

People getting killed in Gaza? Also God's plan

That Kirk guy getting shot? Evil left, nothing to do with God.

Immigrants trying to find a better life in a different country? The worst people, nothing to do with God.

Aunt Marget died of cancer? Poor Marget, she was just unlucky,

It did not help she had no health insurance? No thats not it, that's communism

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[-] ivanafterall@lemmy.world 43 points 1 week ago

Reminds me of being a pastor's son at ~5 and asking the Sunday School teacher if Satan could be saved, since God wants everyone saved. I was sincere--it troubled me that there was a creature that was without hope. Now I understand I should be happy that fucker is burning eternally. He should've never messed with God! That's just normal adult stuff! You live and learn!

[-] survirtual@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago

Buddhism has a more Christian example of Christ-like behavior concerning a "living being Satan". That is to say, if "living being Jesus" was real, he would be a Bodhisattva, perhaps akin to Kṣitigarbha.

In the story, Bodhisattva Kṣitigarbha vowed:

“Until the hells are empty, I will not become a Buddha.

Only when all sentient beings are saved will I attain enlightenment.”

It is a vow to never abandon any being regardless of their state.

I like that idea. Boundless love and compassion doesn't stop at the bounds of some hell. It is boundless. It has boundless time, so it will spend an eternity reaching out to even cyclic hells.

[-] njordomir@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

I'm a Buddatheist who grew up with both cultural Catholicism and later Christian Evangelicism.

I like how this hints at the nature of the self. If I leave someone behind am I not also leaving myself behind?

For me, ethical acts are those that increase the freedom of the self and others. We all suffer. That's a fact of life. If we dissolve our concept of the self and acknowledge our link to others and the world itself we can see ourselves more as threads going through human experience. If we are kind to ourselves and "others", we have a better chance at reducing that suffering.

Imagine the time a stranger forgot their wallet and you paid for their coffee. A version of that experience could still exist in that person's mind long after you die. It could get blended with other experiences and reinterpreted. It could be told as a story to a friend who was inspired by the act. The cascading effects of that person being properly caffeinated on that day could have world changing effects. In a similar way, I carry the shared experiences of my own ancestors and even strangers who have shared their stories with me. They are still alive as a small part of me because my true self is humanity or even some animating life force of the universe or something like that and the name that people call me just refers to the limited perspective and incomplete view I have of existence. Essentially I see existence as blinders limiting my perspective like a race horse, but the true self is a satellite view of the track. When I act, I do so based not only on my experience, but the collective experience of every perspective and experience that has been conveyed to me in every way, but I am still one human body, in physical space, subject to time. I hope that when I die, those blinders will be lifted and I'll exist as pure conscious perception of everything that ever was is and will be. Able to see through anyone's eyes, in any time. To feel any and every feeling felt my an animal or human. To view the entirety of existence as a completed masterpiece from outside time itself.

You can probably see why I like the Buddhists.

I find that when you acknowledge the interconnection of things compassion becomes easier.

I hope that people rediscover that within themselves and others.

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[-] prole 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Lucifer/Satan never even actually kills anyone in the Bible, whereas Yahweh commits literal genocide on multiple occasions.

It should also be noted that the serpent never even told Eve that she should eat the fruit, just that she COULD.

Side note that always puzzled me... 1) why would God create a tree that has fruit that teaches you the difference between good and evil? 2) why would god put this tree in the garden in the first place? 3) why would anyone (particularly an omniscient) ever think that the people who have no concept of right and wrong (before eating the fruit) are going to be able to resist it? And finally, 4) WHY IS KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL A BAD THING??

It's all just so fucking idiotic that it hurts my brain.

[-] ivanafterall@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

The biggest one for me was, "Why doesn't he want them to know they're naked?"

He gets all pissy because Satan ruins his perverted, non-consensual peep-fest and decides to curse literally everything for all time. Fucking gross.

[-] prole 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yeah. He loves you so much. But also, if you don't do exactly as he says, you will literally burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. Why? Because a couple people ate some fruit that I tempted them with and, let's be real, always knew they were going to eat anyway.

That's an abusive relationship if I've ever seen one.

Don't even get me started on how stupid it is that he had to send himself to earth, as his son, to die painfully, in order to save humanity? Like what dude? Do you not literally make the rules? Why would you make it so you have to do such bizarre convoluted shit? Just wave your hand.

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[-] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 38 points 1 week ago

What's even weirder is being raised by Christians, taught to hate the blacks and mistrust the Jews (using the usual inappropriate slurs at every opportunity), never going to church outside of a few Easters, and growing up slowly learning that your parents were full of shit and they never actually read the book they said was so super important.

[-] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago

I've never understood things like pervasive distrust of Jews, but blanket approval of all things done by Israel because Jewish people are "God's chosen people." It's so much mental gymnastics to selectively justify hating Muslims and any Jew living in a large city, and completely ignores the point of the NT, which was to not make the religion tied to blood lines.

[-] WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 16 points 1 week ago

like pervasive distrust of Jews

Historically that's a manufactured thing. Christians were not allowed usury, charging interest on loans. Jews didn't have that limitation. One solution they came up with was barring Jews from doing other jobs and forcing them into the money lender role, with the Christian landlord asking for their cut in fees. That gave Jews a reputation for being distrustful greedy bankers.

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[-] ultranaut@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Israel is integral to their eschatology. They can't have Armageddon without certain conditions being met. Supporting Israel is intended to facilitate the the creation of those conditions.

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[-] Wilco@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 week ago

They hate jews but worship a jew. So fucking weird.

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[-] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago

If they identified as Christian but never read the book or rarely go to church, what connection do they have to the religion and why do you feel they wished to impart it on you?

[-] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 20 points 1 week ago

Hierarchy. The invisible sky wizard makes the rules, and if we don't follow them we burn. And so on down the line, priests, pastors, presidents (unless they're black, hoo boy did that send them over the edge), police, parents. Do as you're told. Do not question authority. It's practical preparation for school and the workforce at least.

Meanwhile, all of my birthday parties were keggers because the weather was nice and the adults liked to party. And I was at most 4 years old when I learned that I shouldn't touch the small squares of mirror. Or the plastic film canisters.

There's nothing quite like the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. Overflowing ash trays and last night's beer cans when you're trying to eat breakfast comes close though.

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[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I was “raised Christian.” The top reasons I despise religion is the a) hypocrisy from top to bottom, b) a person can go through life wrecking others others in ways that may be devastating, permanent, and/or traumatic that they have to live with forever and are supposed to just accept it like some mind of lesson from god, yet the person who does all the damage gets to go to heaven if the ask for forgiveness in just the right way.

Yeah, the whole “love each other and forgive everything” lessons of my youth have been replaced by “fuck you, I’m getting mine” christians.

E: also, the victim complex. Constantly fuck with other people, try to force your religious rules and views on them, and then when criticized or those people otherwise defend themselves or their position: “You’re attacking me! You’re attacking our faith! You won’t let us practice our religion!”

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[-] Aneb@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago

I literally told my mom that I was affected by doge spending cuts in multiple ways that make my current life unmaintainable. I can't afford a 400% in my insurance premium. I use buses and doge cut the grant to my city that kept them fully operational; my city cut routes and reduced buses on the routes they tried to keep on top of freezing the wage for their workers for 4 years of the worst inflation America will see. And she's just like "I'll vote for Trump again, at least he is not a woman"

[-] funkajunk@lemmy.world 23 points 1 week ago

Ain't no love like Christian hate!

[-] InfiniteHench@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

This was one of the fundamental experiences of whiplash that shot me straight out of the Christian community. Giant pile of child-fucking hypocrites.

[-] pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I'm an atheist, but I would probably guess that those type of Christians aren't real Christians at all. It seems to be common in America for people to associate "traditional family values" with Christianity. Which very basically translates to racism and homophobia. So they hide behind Christianity like they're holyier then thou. These people aren't Christians, their bigots with disassociative disorders. You were raised by bigots.

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[-] elbiter@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Christianity is OK, until it interferes with a billionaire's interest...

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[-] ethaver@kbin.earth 13 points 1 week ago

...and that's how I converted to Gnosticism.

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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Helps if you read it as "care about others[parishoners]" not "care about others[foreigners, minorities, and other faiths]"

Ministers love to talk about charity when they're passing around the collection plate. It never comes up on tax day.

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[-] njordomir@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

Last night's Southpark kind of hinted at this topic a little bit. I'm curious to see where they take it, but I won't post any spoilers here because I don't know who has seen it.

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[-] Valorie12@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Literally so hard this. I was raised by christians and they were disappointed when I turned out to not be a christian adult. I tried so hard to point out the hypocrisy of them teaching me to always treat others with respect and to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" but being hardcore right-wingers and trump supporters, being racists af and hating trans and queer people. They still don't seem to get it.

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[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Social media, that's why. The brain being cooked in dopamine all the time by algorithm and fake news fries the brain. People forgot how to be nice.

[-] its_kim_love 26 points 1 week ago

Grew up in the south before social media existed. It's the cause of a lot of problems, but this one predates it by a wide margin. It definitely made it worse, but there is no greater hate than Christian love.

[-] zebidiah@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 week ago

I've often wondered if I would have grown up to be as vehemently atheist if I had grown up in a place without american "christians"

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[-] fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net 10 points 1 week ago

It sounds like all the positive things Christians say about themselves for are just marketing

[-] FenrirIII@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

And my mother wonders why I'm agnostic

[-] oopsgodisdeadmybad@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 week ago

Man, I think I was an atheist for years before I actually knew it. I disagreed with several things without even noticing for a long time. I'd skip going to church, (hell I would show up sometimes for the beginning and leave just so people would know they saw me that day). I hated LGBT people for a good chunk of it. That kinda stopped after I met some.

Then when someone close to me came out as trans, I didn't even blink or feel weird about it. But the old beliefs still kinda hovered there for a while still.

That shit is hard to shake when it's indoctrinated as bad as it was, mostly because of the fact that the fear of hell is reeeeal. It took a movie bringing up the fact that something that I believed was original to the Bible has been around well before it got put into the Bible. That finally shattered holding onto it, and everything else has been catching up ever since.

I'm finally becoming someone I'm not ashamed of.

That started 9 years ago. I still have a group of friends to get back to that tolerate me back then somehow and I need to reintroduce the new me.

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this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2025
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