Most christians seem to ignore most or all of the bible, anyway.
After reading the book, I realized I’m following much more of the Bible as a Muslim than an average Christard zealot does.
As an atheist who tries to do the right thing for people, same. If he lived today, Jesus would probably be a communist and thrown out by Christians.
I'm certain there are Muslim commies, probably some Christian commies too, right? The redistribution of wealth (if not the means of production) in a more equitable manner and the condemnation of greed are part of and at the core the message of prophets Jesus and Mohammed. 👍
There's some line in the New Testamant that absolves Christians of the obligation to observe the laws of Kashrut and whatnot, if I recall, but I couldn't tell you where it is or how exhaustive it is.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
- Matthew 5:17 KJV
To be a follower of Jesus, which is what the disciples originally called themselves, you would need to observe the law... IE, follow the original kosher laws and such.
The real (historical) reasons why Christians don't follow Jesus's religious traditions, come from an ease of assimilation. The Catholic church assimilated pagans into the religion, and it was easier to do so by telling them they don't have to change their current traditions, and that they just have to celebrate Easter, for example, for the birth of Christ and not as a celebration of the goddess of war, love, and fertility.
There are movements that try to go back to this core belief, though. Jews for Jesus and Messianic Judaism are two such movements, where they celebrate Judaism nearly in its entirety, while also believing Jesus was their savior and following his teachings. Truly an interesting, seemingly contradictory, mix of views.
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I am fully aware that there are disagreements on whether or not Catholicism is Christianity or even whether it's a monotheistic or polytheistic religion, and, as such, whether the Catholic assimilations of pagans were relevant to Christianity as a whole. But, honestly, I couldn't care less. In the wise words of Shepherd Book, "I don’t care what you believe in, just believe in it".
I think it goes a bit deeper than just ease of assimilation. A big part of Paul's ministry was the idea that only Jesus can provide salvation, which implies that following all the laws can not. At least that was my understanding based on what I remember reading.
But what does that even mean? Jesus comes to you and holds you by the hand into salvation? Or following the teachings of Jesus does? Because if that's so, then you'd also have to follow the law, right? Paul is a trickster.
Exactly. The letter to the Romans or Acts 15 for instance. Im not defending Christianity, to be clear, I'm defending Lemmy from nonsense. I'm a card holding Satanist.
But like...would Jesus have been cool with that?
In his words, seemingly fine with it; Two commandments
This doesn't appear to include anything about allowing religious freedoms in the sense of the question. It's not "you dont have to be Jewish"
The reference just says "the most important thing is to love god and your neighbor"
This is one of the parts they use. Knowing what to look for I prompted these: Hebrews 8:13: "By calling this covenant ‘new,’ he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear". Jeremiah 31:31-33: "The days are coming… when I will make a new covenant... I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people". 2 Corinthians 3:6-11: Contrasts the "ministry of death" (Old Covenant) with the more glorious "ministry of the Spirit" (New Covenant). Romans 8:2: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death". Galatians 5:4: "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace". Colossians 2:16-17: Advises not to be judged by Old Covenant regulations on food, festivals, or Sabbaths, as these were a "shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ". Matthew 22:36-40: "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets". In this passage, Jesus summarizes the entire law into two commands: love God and love your neighbor. Christian theology understands this not as a replacement of the law, but as Jesus revealing its core purpose. The New Covenant, which emphasizes a transformed heart and life by the Holy Spirit, is seen as the means by which believers are now empowered to fulfill this ultimate intent of the law. Acts 15:10-11, 19-20: Documents the conclusion of the Council of Jerusalem, which decided that Gentile believers were saved by grace and were not required to observe most of the Mosaic Law.
TLDR: New Covenant updated the rules
Who could say? Not me. Maybe a theologian
There's an argument out there that Paul was the guy who really started Christianity. He molded it into something that could spread all over the Roman Empire. It's not completely accepted by biblical scholars, but it has a lot of merit.
Yeah. Jesus was explicitly clear that he came specifically for the Jews and that his offer was for them. The only gospel story that even hints at anything is is the story of the Gentile woman who wanted him to hear her daughter; he told her that he came for the Jews, and she replied that even the dogs may eat scraps from the master's table. Jesus was "amazed by her faith" and healed her daughter, but that's the end of the story.
It's only after Jesus' death that Peter had a vision that he interpreted to mean that Gentiles could be accepted as following Jesus too, and then Paul really leaned into it. Most of the rest of the New Testament is written by Paul or one of his disciples.
If you wanna follow Jesus (according to the best of our information about him), you can't be a Trinitarian quasi polytheist who thinks faith, salvation and works are all disjointed and independent. But Paulian doctrines are nothing but that, and the way for a Roman Empire to convert Jesus' message of accountability and righteousness and his Abrahamic monotheism to something more palatable and in-line with their existing beliefs. This includes but is not limited to: a pantheon of three (with a "human God" as one of those three), "consumption of blood and flesh" rituals, the Day of Judgment no longer being one of actual judgment because if you "believe" "Jesus is God" you're automatically saved, whatever Paulian "grace" was...
The Roman Empire is the grandaddy of all Western imperialistic doctrines and my informed guess is that Paul, who didn't actually know Jesus and even in the Bible he gets told off by Jesus' actual followers, was nothing more than an agent of destabilisation and an infiltrator, perhaps sent by the Romans themselves but if not at least used by them to create what we know now as "Roman Catholicism", which is nothing but a deformed, unrecognisable husk of the teachings of big J. Whether this happened this way or more organically is up to debate, whether Jesus' teachings and Christendom are fundamentally different is not, though, that just requires some basic reading comprehension skills.
It's mostly due to Paul, most Christians are mostly following what Paul wrote. Churches that don't follow Paul, like messianics, are wildly different.
I've met messianic Christians who to me felt Jewish like me but with the Jesus talk.
whoa, I didn't know there were Churches that don't follow Paul. he's one of my biggest issues with Christianity.
I felt like Christianity suffered a lot from so many gentiles streaming in early on without becoming Jews, and by the time it became the religion of Rome it blended with Sol Invictus, Greek Platonism and other Roman mythology, and became incomprehensible. Jesus was Jewish, the Disciples were all Jews, all the context of his teachings only make sense in a context the fresh converts lacked.
I kinda wonder about an alternate universe where a sect of Jews accept Jesus as Moshiach but not as literally God. there'd be no trinity, the parables would go into the Talmud, he'd be seen as a rebbe like Hillel I guess.
Almost like the only things most Christians do is what they personally like about the religion. The part that tells you to not sleep with a man if you are a man, literally tells you to not wear two types of cloth in the next sentence. You never hear republicans going after the people wearing two types of cloth do you? Never a single word. Not once in the history of the Republican party have they tried to dehumanize people who wear two types of cloth. Funny how that works. Almost like religion is just a tool they use to spread their hate.
Also fuck the people who wrote in scripture that being gay is a sin. I hope those people burn in hell. 2000 years of suffering and killing of gay people because some asshole couldn't be bothered to think for 30 seconds about whether it's actually wrong or not. Probably a good thing because without its several flaws, religion might have came to dominate the world.
Abrahamic religions generally frown upon non-procreative sex. Not to justify their hate, but they generally see sex for pleasure as inherently sinful.
Without flaws, a doctrine of fairness for all, murder being a sin, and an overwhelming emphasis on compassion, cooperation, loving thy neighbour and turning the other cheek wouldn't be the disease modern religion is. It would be a codification of human values.
There was no year 0. It was 1 BCE then 1 CE. Just FYI.
Was it though? Like back then?
Back then it was technically the year 3000 something of recorded history. Christianity declared that that's when time started.
Romans but yes Christian Romans after the religion took over the empire.
Back then they didn't use Jesus's birth (or at least, the date Dionysius Exiguus thought was Jesus's birth) as the epoch for counting the years.
Fun fact: year 0 does not exist.
No year "exists", we made up the entire concept of keeping track of "years" in the first place.
we made up all abstract concepts, but some abstract concepts are more real than othe6
Year 0 doesn't exist in the BC/AD numbering system, but does exist in the astronomical year numbering system, as well as the ISO 8601:2004 numbering system (and, apparently, in most Buddhist and Hindu calendars, which I didn't know).
Jesus was born Jewish but converted to Christianity in his teens
Christianity wasn’t a thing until 200 years after his death.
Also…Teenjus!
If being a Christian means following Jesus’ teachings, I’m pretty sure that makes Jesus the first Christian.
Christ can’t be a “follower of Christ.” The first Christian’s were the Apostles.
If your definition is “follower of Christ”, sure, you can argue that Christ can’t follow himself. My definition is “follower of Christ’s teachings”, and he could definitely follow his own teachings.
So, speaking extra pedantically, Christ taught that he is the lord, and to believe in him and accept him as lord is to be a Christian. He believed he was lord, and he believed in himself and accepted himself as lord, therefore I think Christ would also agree that he was a Christian.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Savior?
The separation is generally considered to be when the first century church said circumcision was unnecessary. That was a clean break with Jewish tradition.
Because Jesus showed them a better way? I thought that was the point of it.
All of Jesus's followers who lived when he did were Jewish as well. They were all guilty of what Jesus was crucified for, going against the established religion of the land (I wouldn't call it apostasy though; that's renouncing God and none of them were doing that). Christianity is/was based on the teachings of Christ; it builds upon Judaism.
That's my understanding anyway. I am not religious. But, I don't think "Christians are not Jews like Jesus was" is a bad thing.
What's wild to me is that today's Jews believe Jesus was this decent guy but not the son of God. Then you have Muslims who believe that maybe he was the son of God, maybe he was just a prophet, but they still follow his teachings, they just lean more into the teachings of Muhammad (peace be upon him) (that's how they say it, or they add "PBUH" which means the same). But guess who the Christians side with politically? I don't get it. But I don't think that (the political thing) has to do with who's more closely aligned with Jesus, I think it's who pays better.
But again, I'm not religious, so I don't support or reject any of them. And of course my understanding of these religions is far less than actual practitioners of said religions.
theoretically, Muslims and Jews should be closer. both believe in one god, rather than a trinity. both reject icons. both follow the dietary laws. both Jews and Arabs descend from Abraham.
maybe the closer you are the more you have to fight about 🤷♀️
I don't know too much abut religion, but I thought Jesus was supposed to have bashed up the temples due to them operating like banks. I think that'd be evidence of crticising some the prevailing religious organisation.
IIRC it was other people abusing temples to set up markets there, he didn't have problems with the church itself.
That's because, per Christian doctrine, Jesus created a new covenant with his sacrifice that fulfills and supersedes the old laws, and put a more spiritual mercy/love-driven interpretation on the previous rigid adherence aspects of Jewish laws and traditions before.
Western Christianity is basically Roman traditions rebranded. Jesus was just a paint coat over it to make it look cooler.
More ironically western Christians HATE middle-easterners.
It's a bit more complicated than that. Jesus was a reformer of Judaism, and brought in a lot of unorthodox ideas. Plus, if the Gospel accounts are authentic, he was going around telling people he was the foretold Messiah and the Son of God, which isn't typical Jewish teaching.
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:
If you made it this far, showerthoughts is accepting new mods. This community is generally tame so its not a lot of work, but having a few more mods would help reports get addressed a little sooner.
Whats it like to be a mod? Reports just show up as messages in your Lemmy inbox, and if a different mod has already addressed the report, the message goes away and you never worry about it.