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Make it make sense (media.piefed.world)
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[-] socsa@piefed.social 36 points 4 hours ago

Hey I studied this in grad school for a bit, and it really is just "someone does some dumb shit which leads to a cascading wave of additional people doing dumb shit which propagates backwards for miles." Basically when the offered load is getting close to the maximum load, all it takes is one person aggressively changing lanes to throw that section of highway into gridlock, and it will remain that way until the total integrated traffic flux across that incident boundary again falls below the critical offered load inflection point.

Basically, pick a lane and just stay in it. Maintain proper following distance. Counterintuitively, the following distance should be for the speed you want to drive, so even in traffic it should be like 5+ car lengths even though you are going slow. This is because it reduces the offered load, and once that number falls below the critical point, speeds will increase again. Bumper to bumper traffic basically prevents that from happening because it dampens the ability for a "speedup" wave to propagate.

Of course this is all impossible for humans. All it takes is a few idiots to throw off the balance.

[-] Takios@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 4 hours ago

so even in traffic it should be like 5+ car lengths even though you are going slow.

Other drivers: "It's free real estate"

[-] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

It all starts with someone in the passing lane, not passing, and one or more pissed off people behind them :)

The pissed off people trying to get around causes the wave of people behind them to brake and it snowballs from there.

[-] dingus@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

Yeah I drive around 3 hours on the highway every several weeks. Sometimes on my drive, there's obviously traffic. A lot of times it will be something like rush hour traffic, a crash, construction, etc.

But then like...a good portion of the time when I come to the very front of the "clog", I find that it is just a blockade of multiple people going incredibly slowly and taking up all lanes of traffic, refusing to move over despite the fact that they are going under the speed limit.

[-] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 7 points 4 hours ago

People drive too close to each other, someone has to slow down and then the car behind slows down a bit more. Repeat until you get to the point someone completely stops. Then the next car stops for slightly longer.

If you leave a safe distance then it wouldn't happen.

[-] l_isqof@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

You are thr traffic.

[-] Stamets@lemmy.world 53 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Only ever have to ask, my friend

Heres an overview shot of a traffic pulse.

One person brakes for no reason which leads to everyone else braking. The pulse travels despite there being nothing there. The longer it can take for someone to start up again also can delay the whole thing.

[-] Hikermick@lemmy.world 19 points 6 hours ago

It happens when people tailgate. They over react and it causes an according effect.

[-] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 12 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Or when people drive too aggressively and cut someone off, causing the person being cut off to slam on their brake.

[-] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works 20 points 8 hours ago

3 fucking seconds

The answer is a simple 3 second gap.

That's it, just 3-mississippi (or 3-onethousand) seconds behind the car in front of you and most of the avoidable jams go away.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 18 points 7 hours ago

If you do that, someone will move into the gap. If someone moves into the gap you can slow down to make another gap to them, but then someone else will drive into that gap. I don't know of any major city where you can maintain a 3 second gap during rush hour.

Even worse, if you ever brake to try to create a gap, you're likely to cause a traffic jam behind you.

Sure, if everybody did follow the suggestion and allowed a 3 second gap you wouldn't have traffic jams, but that's just not human nature, apparently.

[-] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 hours ago

You attribute an uneducated, uncivil approach to human nature, but I have been in human queues around the world, and they vary hugely based on cultural and social differences.

What you think is human nature seems to actually be driving culture in your region.

Yesterday I had a swasticar driver actually let me in on a disorderly merge. I was amazed, it was a first. Clue: nothing about Hondas changes people to be better. Tesla and BMW drivers are just shittier at sharing. This is culturally allowed.

[-] plyth@feddit.org 4 points 6 hours ago

Teach people to drive on the right lane unless they want to overtake somebody. Whoever overtakes you on the left won't drive into the gap because they also want to overtake whoever is driving in front of you.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 hours ago

It's too late to teach the entire population how to drive differently now.

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[-] CannedYeet@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

Except the person next to you or behind you gets frustrated and cuts you off and you have to hit the brakes and create a traffic pulse.

[-] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works 6 points 7 hours ago

Well yes, society functions only with cooperation. Uncivil behaviour ends with violence and dismay.

However 3s usually allows for slow adjustments which alleviate caterpillaring.

[-] YoSoySnekBoi@kbin.earth 116 points 12 hours ago

Most traffic jams actually act as a kind of compression wave moving backwards through traffic. Something as small as a squirrel running across the road can cascade into an hour-long jam.

One person brakes, then the person behind them, then the person behind them, but each time they are getting closer to each other (nobody stays equidistant from the car in front of them when braking). This causes a greater and greater slowdown as more cars are compacted into a tighter space, which travels backwards in traffic like a wave. Often the person who caused it doesn't even realize anything happened.

A lot of mapping software actually estimates a given traffic slowdown by treating traffic as a fluid with a wave moving backwards through it.

[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 75 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

That's also why the best way to relieve traffic is to go at a slow even pace without braking. Every time the someone in heavy traffic runs up the ass of another car and brakes hard, or swerves into the "faster" lane and make someone else brake to not hit them, they cause another brake wave. If you have a few cars intentionally just hanging back and cruising with a big enough gap between them and the cars jocking for position in traffic in front of them, then their brake waves do not propogate behind you and eventually traffic just picks up pace again.

Edit: side bonus, you still get there just as fast, but with a lot less stress fighting assholes for position (minus the ones who fly past you thinking you're the asshole for not riding someone else's bumper)

[-] socsa@piefed.social 1 points 4 hours ago

Right, if you think about the creation of traffic as a negative speed wave which causes compression, and traffic alleviation as a positive speed wave which requires rarefaction, then it becomes clear why traffic is so stubborn. When people are so bunched together, no positive speed wave can propagate. Which is why you literally get to to the point where the original idiot slammed on the brakes and the traffic magically disintegrates. If everyone stayed 5 car lengths apart in traffic, that alleviation would actually propagate backwards as fast as the initial congestion.

[-] OR3X@lemmy.world 30 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Yeah, in theory it's great but every time I try it people just cut in front of me then slam on brakes causing me to have to brake then adjust then repeat ad nauseam. People suck.

[-] socsa@piefed.social 1 points 4 hours ago

Then leave another gap. There are finite idiots in the world, and you cannot actually go backwards.

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[-] HalifaxJones@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

Californians te the worst drivers in the world because none of them understand this simple concept. Every day I’m driving, I give more than enough space in front of me for someone to cut me off and I don’t have to brake. It’s simple. However, I’m constantly getting people riding my ass. Switching around me. And being over all menaces just because I’m leaving a roper gap between myself and the car in front of me. It’s wild.

[-] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 8 points 5 hours ago

You think drivers from your <country/state/city> are bad? That's because you have never driven in my <country/state/city>

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

huh, they seem to get that concept on the highways i drive on. big state though, we could live ten hours apart from each other.

[-] HalifaxJones@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Haha true! I’m talking about Southern California. Los Angeles and Orange County.

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[-] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 20 points 9 hours ago

The people at the front are morons and probably in the wrong lane.

[-] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

You don't like driving 55 in the passing lane? You get such a great view of everyone flipping you off!

[-] Gustephan@lemmy.world 7 points 8 hours ago

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/11/9/4278

TLDR: modeling traffic as a gas leads to fairly accurate predictions. If that doesnt mean anything to you, here's a decent visualization of how gasses move around in a system. In this analogy, each of the gas particles models a car on the road. https://youtu.be/Hr5Baj3lXFA

[-] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 62 points 12 hours ago

A few years ago, I was bitching and moaning about a jam, and my pal just said "you're not in traffic, you are traffic".

I know it's nothing more than a cheeky soundbite but just reframing it like that and knowing I'm part of the problem rather than the exception has made me a lot calmer on slow moving roads.

Plus it has encouraged me to either use public transport more, or just drive to a park-and-ride a mile or three out, and run the rest - facilities permitting of course.

[-] bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 hours ago

I still lose it when I finally get to the front of the jam, and the only reason for said jam is because everyone is stopping to look at an accident on the OTHER SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY.

[-] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 1 points 3 hours ago

Yeah, it's frustrating.

I'm not entirely sure what the rubberneckers want to see either. "Oh look, someone critically injured next to someone who is likely deceased", because that isn't a day ruiner at the best of times.

Odd.

[-] Battle_Masker 16 points 10 hours ago

"No John, YOU are the traffic!"

And then John was traffic

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[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 17 points 10 hours ago

It's usually a complex crowd effect created by many participants trying to maneuver among each other in slightly disperate ways.

In Portland OR, it really is because some dingbat slowed down to 20 MPH on the interstate for literally no fucking reason at all.

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this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2025
482 points (100.0% liked)

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