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[-] cybervseas@lemmy.world 35 points 6 days ago

Both hobbit and space hobbit defy all odds to inexplicably save the day. It’s apt.

[-] tankplanker@lemmy.world 28 points 6 days ago

I'd have picked Tom Bombadill over Gandalf to line up against Q

[-] teft@piefed.social 28 points 6 days ago

I'd have made Quark a space dwarf (loves gold pressedlatinum, short in stature) and I'd have made romulans space goblins (descended from space elves, evil).

[-] tankplanker@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

Romulans could also line up against the Black Numenoreans, fits the split from the good line of Numenoreans, Vulcans. Either is good though

I can see the Quark thing, especially with the Dwavern rings enhancing their lover of material things

[-] Elkot@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago

As a Scotsman I should be insulted but I always play a dwarf in D&D so I'll allow it

[-] GraniteM@lemmy.world 23 points 6 days ago

Scotty might be a space dwarf, but O'Brien is a space hobbit through and through.

[-] Flocklesscrow@lemmy.zip 9 points 6 days ago
[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

This makes Keiko being a teacher even funnier.

[-] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 15 points 6 days ago

Isn't the "orc" an uruk-hai and the "goblin" the actual orc? I like the movies, but I'm no expert. Perhaps it's on purpose and part of the joke?
This is also doing hobbits dirty.

[-] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Side rant, Lord Of The rings Orcs are problematically categorized as evil yet are sentient and at least in the movies (I haven't read the books) that is never examined beyond providing the heroes cannon fodder and evil army to pillage the hero's home.

Klingons on the otherhand have been immensely fleshed out as a vibrant complex species with many subcultures that still exhibit a capacity and willingness to engage in violence that feels decidedly inhuman (but also of course quintessentially human too) and Star Trek subverts and confirms the stereotype of Klingons in a confusing way that only truly subversive storytelling bothers to.

Klingons could "just" have been Lord Of The Rings Space Orcs, but the writers of Star Trek have consistently chosen more interesting possibilities to expand behind the initial facade of who Klingons appear to be at first glance. For one humans don't win against the space orcs, they find other ways to end the war/wars that leverage an understanding of Klingons and making political gestures that are salient to their culture.

I don't mean this as a huge takedown or critique I just think the juxtaposition is interesting.

Same thing with the ferengi at least in DS9.

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago

never read the book

ARRRGGGGG!!!!!

dies inside

OK, yes in the films the Orcs make little to no sense and are nothing outside of comic relief cannon fodder, but in the books they aren't like that at all. In the books almost everything "evil" is an artificial or evil magic version of something else as a way to counter it, like the Nazgul were an attempt to fight against Eagles. Orc were actually the first elves to come into existence, and the evil bad guy who was Sauron's boss corrupted and tortured them until they were orcs. They are meant to be a counter to elves, but making people out of evil motives and discordant thinking isn't that great an idea, so they aren't very good at this. but they do have their own language and family units, not weird birthing pits, and make their own choices, there's a few longer parts in the books where you're just following the orcs along. after the war the orc's are pretty pissed they got roped into the whole evil army thing, and vow to never follow "big bosses" again. Also Aragorn gives them their own lands. The humans and other beings that fought for Sauron were all roped into it with his lies and cunning, and were pretty upset when they found out all the horrible shit Sauron was up to, in the books no one's really THAT evil, and the orc's and goblins can be pretty goofy, but also very normal humanoid type of things.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

Fairly sure that the orcs were able to be compelled of Sauron focused on them and wanted them to do something; as a result of morgoth’s corruption.

After the war, they were freed and could now make their own choices.

[-] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 days ago

ok cool good to know some more lore!

[-] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War actually explore orcish culture and morality, the latter game more than the former. Ultimately, they've spent all their lives in a Morgoth and/or Sauron cult. The ones that don't buy into it are more chill, and some show signs that they could be decent or even heroic in different circumstances. Eltariel is able to make some progress deprogramming a couple, but siding with Talion, Celebrimbor, or even Eltariel mostly just has the orcs cast them as their new Dark Lord. It's probably possible to get the bulk of the orc population into a better place, but it would take many generations of concerted effort at a massive scale. They'd have to replace their entire belief system and most of their way of life just to leave the cult. Additionally, even when not following a Dark Lord, the orcs culturally favor bloodshed to settle conflicts. This isn't too big of a problem with other orcs since they can take shockingly large amounts of punishment without dying, but it's a huge problem when interacting with anyone else. And even that's probably solvable without wholesale destruction of orcish culture, but everything would take so damn long that it's well beyond the scope of LOTR.

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

I do love those games, but they are very much not offical canon, but I do like them a lot.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

To be fair, Klingons were "just" Space Russians in the TOS era. It wasn't until after after Praxis/Chernobyl when the Soviet allegory ceased being topical, that they had to find other themes for them to embody.

[-] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Even in TOS the Klingons weren't as flat as orcs are in LOTR.

Roddenberry always tried to make sure their motivations made them "heroes in their own story", while Tolkien wrote orcs as evil by nature.

[-] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Yeah but they didn't stay that way, DS9 had a Klingon restaurant on it!

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

So, orcs were corrupted elves, by Morgoth (who was Sauron’s boss,)

Which is why Sauron doesn’t have complete control over them- though Morgoth would have.

[-] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 13 points 6 days ago

I would argue that overt mysticism is what, largely, separates fantasy from science fiction. So something like Star Wars would, in my mind, be far more space fantasy than Star Trek.

[-] DontRedditMyLemmy@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago
[-] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

That is correct.

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

the Dwarfs in the original fairy tale lore of western Europe were just regular elves who liked mountains and mining.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 6 days ago

dark elves of norse legends would romulans.

[-] Rusty@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago
[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

The human one made me chortle.

[-] trolololol@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

Could have said "space horny (human)"

[-] TachyonTele@piefed.social 11 points 6 days ago

*hot space elf

[-] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago

Every true Scotsman knows about space

[-] PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Would make more sense to compare LOTR to Star Wars because it’s usually given the space opera fantasy title. Star Trek is just regular science fiction.

[-] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 6 points 6 days ago

Humans are the real space orcs

[-] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago

I just figured I tend to like epic quests with funny looking people.

[-] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 6 days ago

Should've picked Pippin as the example for fantasy hobbits when you go for (nuisance).

[-] MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca 4 points 6 days ago

Don’t ruin Star Trek for me. Seriously.

[-] Almacca@aussie.zone 2 points 6 days ago

Star Trek sems to be doing a pretty good job of ruining Star Trek these days.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

you can thank KURTZMAN and paramount for doing it. kurtzman said he dint care about continuity of star trek, hence why the 3 series is so wierd and out of place, and SUPER LAZY.

enterprise for what its worth was starting to get better in the last season, but LES MOOVES destroyed the franchise, because he hated the show. and then came the jj-abrams era, which nutrek copies now.

[-] Almacca@aussie.zone 1 points 5 days ago

The fact that Alex Kurtzman keeps getting work reinforces my decision to just not bother.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 5 days ago

also lifting material without crediting the sources, like from the novels/ and the wiki page, yea we know its franchise IP, but acknowlegde the source lol.

[-] MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago

Don’t know what you’re talking about; aside from that Section 31 movie, all recent series have been stellar. Not perfect, they each have their flaws—just like the original series…

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[-] Bahnd@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

Oh, just watch Lower Decks and laugh. There are plenty of writers who "Get" Star Trek, they just arn't making the big budget movies, they are doing the silly side projects.

[-] autonomous@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago

Glory, not even once.

[-] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 days ago

How dare you to be so accurate!

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

I mean, the only real difference is setting and content between scifi and fantasy, so... This meme is simply ignoring all the parts that are significantly different. If you boil things down to character archetypes, then you could probably construct this meme about most anything. (especially with the tongue in cheek engineer and nuisance not really being so similar)

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this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2025
591 points (100.0% liked)

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