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[-] Limonene@lemmy.world 9 points 20 hours ago

I agree with this. Also, I think the rich people trying to control the working class don't have a grand conspiracy. Mostly, I think they silently cooperate in a way that looks coordinated, but is just individual self-interest that happens to line up. We get screwed on all fronts by similar-looking corporations, so it looks like a conspiracy.

But when rich people buy politicians, that's a public and well known conspiracy.

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 4 points 20 hours ago

Mostly, I think they silently cooperate in a way that looks coordinated, but is just individual self-interest that happens to line up.

Plato observed this. It's called oligarchy. He said the good news is that it eventually falls because of the lack of coordination, because oligarchs having their own interests end up conflicting one another. The people also always get fed up with corruption eventually. The bad news is that it will get worse before it gets better.

[-] _AutumnMoon_ 66 points 2 days ago

"You don't need to invent an invisible shadow government to be mad at. You can just be mad at the actual government."

[-] shneancy@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

i think- i think the "invisible shadow government" conspiracies are a cope. if someone voted for the current government that is fucking things up (as the opposition said they would) then it might be hard to admit to having made the wrong choice whilst voting, especially if the current government claims to hold the same values as you "my wholesome christian government that said they'd help guys like me wouldn't be the ones making my life harder! it must be the secret cabal!!!"

[-] lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 146 points 2 days ago

As Naomi Klein said: Conspiracy theorists often get the feeling right but the facts wrong.

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 72 points 2 days ago

i have an ur-conspiracy theory that every elaborate conspiracy theory is a distraction from a simple and straightforward conspiracy. for every "trump is trying to uncover a vast child sex ring" there's a "trump fucks kids and our system of capital protects him"

[-] lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 2 days ago

That kind of sums up the difference Naomi Klein makes in Doppelganger about conspiracy theory and leftist critics: Leftists will look at the system while conspiracy theorists will assume the system is good but some people, most often Jews, have somehow corrupted it.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 33 points 2 days ago

Im sure you know Cory Doctrorow already but i still wanted to share this little section from one of his recent blogposts.

https://pluralistic.net/2025/07/19/systemic/

Trump's conspiratorial base are hugely and reliably animated by stories about impunity for elite sex predators. As well they should be! Elite sex predators get away with all kinds of crimes โ€“ not just Epstein, but the whole universe of powerful men, from Harvey Weinstein to Donald Trump, who systematically abused women for decades and got away with it โ€“ bragged about it, even!

But despite these very real abusers, the conspiracists in the Trump base are mostly concerned with imaginary abusers โ€“ Qanon's shadowy cabal of adrenochrome-guzzling pedophiles, tirelessly freighting trafficked children from one nonexistent pizza parlor basement to the next, packed inside of very mid Wayfair home furnishings:

https://pluralistic.net/2021/07/05/ideomotor-response/#qonspiracy

This is the "mirror world" of right wing conspiracism described in Naomi Klein's Doppelganger:

https://pluralistic.net/2023/09/05/not-that-naomi/#if-the-naomi-be-klein-youre-doing-just-fine

It's the world in which real suffering children (kids in cages, children rotting in Alligator Auschwitz, kids working the night-shift at a meat-packing plant) don't matter at all, while imaginary children (unborn children, Qanon victims, etc) take center stage.

[-] Mirshe@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

The general difference, though unspoken, is that the kids being "trafficked" in their heads are white middle class suburban kids. A lot of conspiracy simply leads back to antisemitism, white supremacy, or both.

[-] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 1 points 12 hours ago

Yes, they don't care about the real victims because those kids have the wrong skin tone.

Good king, eeeeeeevil nobility

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 35 points 2 days ago

I mean there's definitely groups of powerful rich people that aren't widely known. That's just cuz they're smart enough to stay out of the Limelight. It's not a secret society though.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 days ago

Like Thiel and Ellison. They are pulling the strings like a marionette on our government, but they aren't household names.

[-] plyth@feddit.org 7 points 2 days ago

If the rich people control everything then it would be normal to put the spotlight on each one of them once in a while just for society to know who holds the power. Instead newspapers gossip about movie stars and a small group of rich people. That's more than smartness.

[-] Wolf@lemmy.today 9 points 2 days ago

If the rich people control everything then it would be normal to put the spotlight on each one of them once in a while just for society to know who holds the power.

Ain't no "If". There is no need for the people to know who holds the power if they are perfectly capable of maintaining power without the spotlight, which they are. Being in 'the spotlight' would only hurt them because then people would know who to blame.

It's only the ignorant jackasses like Trump and Musk who gained their power by luck who brag about their power, the rest are cunning enough to know better.

[-] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago

I meant it differently. In a democracy, the entire population holds the power. Usually the population would want to know who to blame.

[-] Wolf@lemmy.today 5 points 2 days ago

In the U.S. we supposedly have a 'Representative Democracy', yet the 'representatives' that keep getting elected are more concerned with what the corporations that 'lobby' them want. I agree, the population does want to know who to blame, but like I said the people in charge (the rich) are cunning enough to let idiot politicians be the scapegoats. Even the politicians are rarely face any consequences. If they happen to represent a constituency that is actually paying attention, they might not get reelected, but that is the exception not the rule here.

Even in some cases where people pay attention, a lot of people have been brainwashed by centuries of propaganda that the mega-rich are good and healthy for a society, and that business interests are more important than human interest, so people commonly vote against their own best interest.

[-] forrgott@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 21 hours ago

US government is a democratic republic. In other words, a republic that incorporates some democratic concepts and procedures.

But it is not a democracy.

[-] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 points 19 hours ago

The U.S Government is a Democratic Republic, which is a type of Representative Democracy, which is a type of democracy.

In theory this has advantages over a 'pure/direct' Democracy- for example even if 51% of the people voted to ignore the bill of rights, that wouldn't be legal. You would have to amend the constitution to achieve that- which is a lot harder to do than simply getting 51% of the popular vote. In a Direct democracy it would be easier for a majority group to disenfranchise a minority group.

If the US. was ran they way it's supposed to be, we would be a democracy because the government exists to enact the will of the people.

The problem is that our representatives no longer represent us (if they ever really did), so that makes it decidedly less than democratic. That's why I said we were 'supposedly' a Representative Democracy. We are in name only.

[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago

The beliefs of the poorest 90% of the population have zero impact on the outcome of public policy debates. We do not live in a democracy.

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

Well yeah man who do you think owns the spotlights?

[-] Hupf@feddit.org 3 points 2 days ago

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[-] plyth@feddit.org 2 points 2 days ago

Rich people. That's why they are not just smart and stay out of the Limelight. They make the Limelight shine somewhere else.

It's an important distinction because it doesn't make the Limelight appear to be an objective source of truth.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 47 points 2 days ago
[-] Zwrt@lemmy.sdf.org 42 points 2 days ago

Why not both?

The rich love being in a exclusive secret clubs and creating a secret club with dedicated buildings/rooms is not super difficult if you have money. They are still the same rich though.

[-] Ougie@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Why does one replace the other? Ever since 9/11 I've noticed a real push to discredit conspiracy theories to the point where the term now invokes images of lunatics with tin foil hats and insane ideas like lizard people and whatnot. It's been really effective too. Like, there's things out there that sound bat shit crazy until it turns out they were true - like operation Northwoods for example - but nobody seems to care because they are verified decades later.

Sure, there's visible people out there that can be blamed, but why is it so outlandish that there may be more who know how to hide from public scrutiny?

I've always wondered for example, what ever happened to the vast wealth of all these families that feature in every conspiracy theory like the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers etc? Are we to believe that they just faded away from public affairs, are no longer important and that the richest men in the world are the newbies, Bezos Elon etc? I've not looked into it or anything (Eddie Bravo style) but somehow I don't buy it, I bet they're still behind major things that are happening today. If anyone has an explanation I'd love to hear it btw. Would love nothing better than a good debunking.

[-] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 30 points 2 days ago

I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill 'em all!

[-] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 days ago

The only good billionaire is a dead billionaire

[-] Asswardbackaddict@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

Why not both?

[-] elvith@feddit.org 24 points 2 days ago

Secret group of rich people

Let me guess. Those rich people are Jewish?

[-] lemmyknow@lemmy.today 9 points 2 days ago

No, they're secret. No way to know. Unless you got insider information. i lick it boom boom dem

[-] TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago

What is it with people associating Judaism with secret power? Just because they win a disproportionate amount of Nobel prizes?

[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

It's because they're smart and intelligent and dominated a lot of the intellectual circles in the 20th century so with that comes presumedly power. It's 40% conspiracy theory, 20% truth, and 40% the media's ambition to sell juicy headlines.

[-] elvith@feddit.org 6 points 2 days ago

The argument that I heard was "historically, jews weren't allowed in many professions. But lending money was something they could do. So that's how they got rich and with money comes power." But I'm not sure whether that's the 'real' reason...

[-] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Crucially, usury (i.e. lending money with interest) was something that Christians could not do. It was considered a sin. Judaism has no problem with it, though.

Since somebody is unlikely to lend you money for free, and loans were a service that people needed, Jewish lenders filled that void and became wealthy.

[-] Kurious84@lemmings.world 15 points 2 days ago

Both. The smart works work behind the scenes like that anti christ looking mfer Peter thiel.

[-] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 10 points 2 days ago

He looks like a fucking tweaker

[-] fullsquare@awful.systems 3 points 2 days ago

no joke, he wants to live forever, he's into cryonics and wants to test some random ass not-yet-meds on people to that end (see his anti-FDA stance and enhanced games)

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

I don't really know how widely known Peter Thiel is. Like the circles I run in know him. He's known here. But does the average person on the street know who is? Not even that does the average news watcher/reader know who he is?

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

Secret Group of Rich People = Poor People, Migrants, and Minorities

[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

nooo don't you see the secret group of rich people wants the immigrants to have a cheap supply of labor force that's willing to work for less and displaces our own white population. we're better, but we can't tell you why. also the immigrants are lazy and are leeching on our subsidies, so we must remove the subsidies for all so the immigrants don't get them. also won't somebody think of the children. it doesn't matter what exactly you think of them, as long as you show you're in control by taking dominance and not letting others choose what to do. also imagine how bad it would be if women could choose how many children to have. we'd all die out. we can't tell you why that would be bad, but the white race must always stay on top. god bless america.

this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2025
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