Roosevelt did great things for Americans while still being capitalist. The needle can be moved left without violent revolution.
"Both sides bad" is weak sauce.
Quick reminder that there were other things going on in the 20s and 30s. You know, the height of socialism in the West, a strong labor movement willing to burn down factories, stuff like that. The New Deal didn't come because leftists played nice.
The coal wars threatening to kick off a second civil war, y'know small things.
Blue Morpho apparently never learned about the Battle of Blair Mountain or the Railway Strikes.
No, the new deal only came to be after violent protests, and was largely a betrayal of labor groups because it gave a much watered down version of what was actually demanded, all while Roosevelt broke the strike he promised to support while campaigning. Read "Labor's Giant Step Forward" by Art Preis if you want a more detailed accpunt
In addition to the points raised by some of the other comments I'd remind you of one uncomfortable truth. The business plot was attempted fascist takeover of America. That was thankfully put down because remarkably there was one honorable ex-marine they tried to involve the plot. That's Smedley Butler. In the wake of that that attempted fascist coup basically nobody was punished. In large part because Roosevelt told them as long as they kept their mouth shut and didn't block the New Deal he wouldn't go after them. That's basically the only reason it got through. Truncated as it was even then. Because most of the richest and most powerful people in the country we're looking down the barrel of a gun otherwise.
Have fun wasting your time doing this. If they only fucked over Burnie once I might agree with you.
If you had to go back almost a hundred years to find any kind of example, I'm just going to gesture broadly at the next hundred years and rest my case.
What is the point of this meme? I feel like the only thing this can produce is people to not try to reform and improve the democratic party and take it over (like the tea party took over the republicans). Kind of like these "give up climate change it can't be stopped" posts that just benefits the big fossil fuels companies
That's the point, I've noticed a lot of the loudest, most active posters on Lemmy ultimately want one thing, which is progressives not to vote. Weird how that's what the conservatives have relied on for every presidential victory they've achieved in the past half century or more.
Votes are earned not freely given. Your vote is your voice. Definitely vote at the local and state levels where your voice can be the loudest.
And if you only want to give half a vote, give it to Trump and JD.
(Because not voting is very similar to half a vote for the other guy.)
(Because not voting is very similar to half a vote for the other guy.)
Not voting wasn't a vote for Trump. Did not voting for Trump mean a vote for Harris?
Did not voting for Trump mean a vote for Harris?
It would mean you wouldn't have minded a Harris victory. The comment even explicitly said "half a vote" to reflect this.
This commentary is frequently also accompanied with blaming Harris voters for things that Trump is doing...
What is the point of this meme?
These memes communicate to Democrats and their supporters that we're sick and tired of their mask-off conservative rule when they promise us the world and do nothing once elected. You want praise? You want votes? Then do something.
Since, you know, not voting for them apparently isn't enough to inspire meaningful change. Just once in my life I want to see Democrats fight harder for the working class and poor as they do against socialists and third parties.
This is a right-wing troll talking point. Don't listen to it.
Go to the Democratic primaries and move the party left. And then, no matter who gets the nomination, vote Dem in the general election. This is exactly what the nazis did to move the GOP to the right and it worked great for them, and it's something we can emulate.
Yeah, not listening to this defeatist garbage. The Democratic party has been changed before. It will be changed again. The party is not defined by some monolithic ideology. We need massive electoral reform in the US to ensure elections are actually fair. First past the post is problematic. House and Senate functions are problematic. We need a solution to the two party problem, but until then, our vehicle is the Democratic party. Best to make it do what we want it to rather than just give up because "they're corporatists".
While I mostly agree with this, I have one significant hurdle I am unable to overcome. What other choice do I have?
I can't stand most Democrats. They suck! But they are a far cry better than voting Republican. And voting for a third party feels like wasting my vote.
If there was a third party candidate that focused on climate change and social issues and had even the slightest chance of winning, I would vote for them in a second. Until then, I am stuck voting for the lesser of two evils.
You are giving consent when you vote. You are saying this choice is fine.
Maybe America is at a point where voting is not the solution. How are things now compared to when the American revolution happened?
Edit - people downvote this but 'voting for the lesser of two evils' is. What. Has. Got. You. Here.
You are giving consent when you vote. You are saying this choice is fine.
Actually, when you vote, you just vote.
That's it. It's not a magic ritual, you don't telepathically send your message to the Holy Ghost of Democracy when you vote, Anubis isn't going to weigh your ballot against a feather before deciding on the fate of your soul.
You circle something or you don't and then you deal with whatever happens however you want.
No.
Implicit in the act of voting is the giving of consent. The fact that you have not received the education to understand this simple fact is indicative of how democracy has failed. It requires an educated populace.
If Zohran Mamdani gets elected and actually follows through with his campaign promises, this is factually incorrect. I am holding on to that last glimmer of hope.
actually follows through with his campaign promises
Don't count on it. Not for any bad reason, just that things are harder to implement than campaign promises, whether it's city council in the way or just practicality.
I'm just saying he can be a success without implementing all of his campaign ideas.
you have no choice except this or violent revolt because your election system is garbage.
What the fuck are you talking about I've heard it a million fucking times already. Its all anti-Harris lefties talk about.
Having fun with the fascism we've got instead? Thanks for that BTW. Real good. Really makes me motivated to fight for my rights when my follow lefties keep empowering fascists through inaction in the most simplistic and basic fucking democratic function of going to a polling place and voting once every 4 years for the lib that'll beat the fascist.
I really wanna go fight ICE in hand to hand combat and get shot in the fucking face knowing this probably could have been prevented.
Also if you are going to complain that I'm not bagging on the centrist/liberal dems for losing because they refused to budge left: I fucking hate them too, you can both suck shit directly out of my asshole.
There's no way to win political power in the United States without the Democratic Party or the Republican Party.
Socialists and progressives will always have an easier time infiltrating the neoliberal Democratic Party over the fascist Republican Party.
The longer the fascists are in power the harder it will be remove them from power because they will change the rules to maintain power.
The optimal strategy remains to vote for neoliberals when the alternative is fascists because that is how to create time for socialists and progressives to primary neoliberals in the Democratic Party and win general elections.
This meme is a continuation of the accelerationism we saw during the 2024 election. It supports the fascist cause by attempting to sabotage leftist's best strategy and thus is pro-fascist. The user is prone to self-sabotage as they publicly admitted to not voting for Harris in 2024.
If a fascist drinks at your bar and you don't throw them out it's a fascist bar. If a fascist meme ends up in your community and you don't throw it your a fascist community.
I am reporting this meme. And you all should too. I'm sick of self-described leftists backstabing me and every other minority group they pretend to care about because they're mad about the 2016 election. I'm a trans, atheist, Jew. I'm close enough to the death camps for my liking thanks. You don't have to like the Democrats, I don't, but we do need to vote for them.
I refuse to go quietly. I refuse to tolerate memes that shrug at my right to exist and throw fuel to the fire in the hopes that the fascists kill everyone faster. That's not a real political position. It's black pilled bullshit and it can fuck off.
Hope that helps people stop tolerating this bullshit going forward.
"We'd rather have a convicted felon pedophile be president because the Democrats don't want to dismantle capitalism entirely and replace with... well we don't know what with".
somebody said it nicely yesterday in a lemmy comment:
we need to capture the dems and turn them into a socialist party,
just like the fascists captured the reps and turned them into a nazi party
Well the other option is reforming the Republican Party. That seems harder.
You can do what the tea party did: capture a small enough portion of your voting base that covers the margin of victory (aka: the short hairs) and demand the party do your bidding.
If they cared about victory, you'd be right. But it's becoming pretty clear they care far more about money. If they're paid to lose anyway, this tactic is utterly useless.
It may not be worth the effort to reform it, but claiming that it "can't" be reformed is asinine. A political party is not some higher order being, timeless and unchanging, nor even one with a fundamental permanent set of core tenants that all else springs from. It's a group of people with a bit of bureaucracy that influence and decide somewhat collectively on their shared goals. Of course that can change fundamentally.
In fact it has changed fundamentally in the not too distant past. Look at the Democratic party (and the Republican party) of the Jim Crow era compared to today. They essentially flipped to the other side of the political spectrum. It's absolutely not easy to change a party fundamentally and not quick to do so, either. Old minds are not easily swayed with the times. The primary way to change party ideals is through new minds and perspectives joining the party and the old ones leaving it. Generational change is slow AF but it does definitely happen. Concerted effort for young people with new ideals to join the party is the best way to induce this change. Again though, that is a lot of effort and takes times. The bigger he ship, the harder to steer. There are alternatives, all of which also take a ton of effort, probably a lot more effort really, but might be faster if it works out.
Not true. It can be reformed the same way the republican party was deformed. By gutting it from the inside out and replacing all the dead weight.
Yes. It can be taken over like the rnc was by maga. The mentality of this post makes progressives lose before they try. That is what capitalism really wants. For you to not try and accept the bullshit.
Great way to logic. Let me try...
You cannot reform the United States of America because at it's core it is a capitalist and imperialist country that will always put corporate interests over human interests.
Oh shit, now the whole project is hopeless. Let me try again.
You cannot reform humanity because at it's core it is selfish and self-serving.
I guess we are all fucked. Or maybe we grow the fuck up and deal with the reality of what's in front of us and the work involved in making things better. If we can't reform the Democrats, then we have no chance in hell of shepherding a new party from nothing to national powerhouse without losing it to the same corrupting forces that hold the Democrats. Never-mind the realities of what it would take to take over the country with a third party in a first past the post system.
So let me guess. The solution is to vote for a 3rd party that has absolutely no presence in our federal government at all, hoping that magically one of their reps can become president and save the country, despite having absolutely no support within the federal government, at all? And we'll just all agree to pretend like they won't become susceptible to corporate interests as well so they can actually accrue enough money to start winning elections.
Ok, so enough of that stupid bullshit. Let's hop on back to reality.
In reality, we have to vote Democrat for the time being because WE JUST FOUND OUT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENS IF WE DON'T. Meanwhile, we hope that a 3rd party can get off its fucking ass and start winning local/state elections so they can start getting MORE THAN ZERO representatives in the House and Senate, so that someday they can actually have a real shot at running a candidate for president.
This meme is grade school level dogshit. It only serves to split the vote more on 3rd party candidates that can't win and ensure Republican control of our government for even longer. We don't live in fantasy land. 3rd parties can't recite magical incantations and gain control of our federal government. There's a really fucking long process for a road to the presidency for a 3rd party, and in the meantime, we fucking vote Democrat because HAVE WE FUCKING LEARNED NOTHING?
Okay, one still should vote for a Democrat president. Because why would you vote for a more hostile government? Unless of course you want everything go-to shit but you should lead with your intention.
Oh bullshit. Every bit of the Democratic Party is open to elections, including the DNC. Every one of those odious officials can be replaced. Reforming it won't happen because progressives are lazy and feckless and don't get involved in their local and state parties or vote in primaries and local elections.
I have zero idea how you can look at the democratic party's behavior, leadership and priorities over the past 20 years and believe this in good faith.
Hey the DNC is a private org and the courts have affirned their right to run and rig their internal elections(which include primaries) anynway they want, including simpy ignoring the outcome. Idk why you think their self run elections are fair or free but thats a massive huff of copium.
It's not the democratic party, it's the US itself that is rotten. The dem are just another manifestation of the issue.
I see your point, however, the Democratic party is not fascist. It does provide a clear difference from the GOP. Wether we like it or not, USA is a two party system. We need to be practical here, not ideological, or we just go fascist forever.
I think it can be ship of theseus'd, just replace all the key people in the party and keep the name.
FDR was a democrat, if it could go from that to what it is now, it can be turned back into a socialist party.
Corporate interests are human interests. They are the interests of the few. Its class. The class of the wealthy - the class of the few. Its always class we need to break down. Nothing maters more.
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