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[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

We need to grow our numbers! The only way we can do that is with continued non-violent organized protest. Violence will only reduce our numbers and suppress our resistance.

Erica Chenoweth has a very well researched presentation on the success of non-violent resistance overthrowing dictatorships with only 3.5% of the population. I highly recommend it.

Come out today for the Free America protest! We also have the Good Trouble Lives On protest on July 17th.

Sign up for notifications from 50501 to stay informed.

[-] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 44 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The only way we can do that is with continued non-violent organized protest. Violence will only reduce our numbers and suppress our resistance.

I emphatically reject these claims. Both nonviolent and violent resistance is necessary, and in fact they need to collaborate. The following quote from the Black Catalyst Revolt Guide is relevant:

If we are to learn from the successful movements of the past, we can see that all successful pressure has been the collusion of the peaceful and non-peaceful aspects of the movement, such that the peaceful party can lobby the state to concede, saying to them “now see? Wouldn’t you rather deal with me than them? Sit down and make some concessions to those suffering people.” Meanwhile, the non-peaceful protesters escalate the aggression of their actions such as to put a clock on the state. Direct action should therefore not be seen as a chaotic byproduct to be avoided. It should instead be seen as a necessity as to extract outcomes for the movement. Ultimately, if the demands of the protests are not met, revolution should be the threat. In this way, we are to transform the government to our whims, not vise versa.

[-] Stillwater@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago

You should watch the Eric's Chenowith video that was linked in the above comment

[-] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 15 points 1 week ago

Yeah I'll get around to it, although I've heard that claim before and I don't disagree with the need for mass mobilization, some of which is going to be nonviolent. But IMO the nonviolent parts of the revolt need to collaborate with the violent parts of the revolt!

[-] Stillwater@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago

Her research shows why that's likely wrong. Definitely check it out!

[-] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 19 points 1 week ago

Okay, I watched their Ted talk. The red flag for me is the clean separation of revolts into either strictly violent or strictly nonviolent. It is my view that a more careful study of the history of all the revolts labeled successful and partially successful would reveal that many if not all of those revolts succeeded because of the complementary (if not collaborative) efforts of both nonviolent and violent protests. History glorifies the nonviolent protesters because they're easy to lionize, without any of the ethical complexities that violent protests invite.

IMO it seems like they went in looking for a hypothesis and managed to spin the statistics to justify it. I'll look into their research as I'm sure it goes into more detail, but I'm so far not convinced.

[-] TotallynotJessica 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

This honestly smells like the white washed "civil rights era" mentality that pretends nonviolence is the only strategy for positive change. MLK Jr. was inspired by Gandhi's nonviolent movement, but he was well aware of the violent side of that story. After Gandhi was ignored and imprisoned, his mass movement turned violent, accomplishing the actual change.

Dr. King's strategy was to be a "reasonable black person" with the unspoken promise that white lawmakers would have to deal with "unreasonable" black people should they ignore him. It's why anti rioting legislation was passed hand in hand with civil rights legislation. They capitulated, but also looked to set up barriers to violence in the future.

The militarization of the police over the past half century can be seen as an extension of those anti rioting measures. Liberals want us to believe that nonviolence is our only tool, because that allows them to ignore our nonviolent efforts without fear of reprisal. The people we should direct our ire to aren't just the fascists, but the pro-police politicians in general.

[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Heard of them, read their stuff years ago, really unimpressed.

Digging up and cherry picking evidence for things you already believe is not a scientific approach, it just feels slimy. Chenoweth is a red flag imo, and not kind that says 'im probably okay in bed, and masturbate to how I'll murder you once we're done killing the fascists'

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety, and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.

How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?

[-] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 25 points 1 week ago

Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety

Same with nonviolent resistance! Worse for nonviolent resistance! Did you see what the pigs did to those protesters in LA? All over the country during the No Kings protests?!?

and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.

Fascists don't need to be emboldened. They are already fully monsters. No matter how peacefully you protest, the fascists will treat you as if you revolted.

How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?

Not as many as you think! Remember Vietnam?

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[-] umb_official@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 week ago

Violent resistance can be justified against violent oppression

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[-] amino 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

such a disgusting rhetoric to peddle non-violence while promoting 50501, a white supremacist organization that hires veterans in "peacekeeping" roles to shoot antifascists and anyone who's not white.

playing peace police is inherently a violent act because taking a stand against all the oppressed people who respond back in the only language that the state understands reinforces white supremacist systems.

instead of supporting libs that cooperate with state repression and enable fascism, donate to Gamboa's legal fund, join anti-authoritarian grassroots orgs and support your local antifascists.

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

What that peacekeeper did was abhorrent, and is under investigation. Are all Republicans good because Rand Paul voted against the budget reconciliation bill? Your inflammatory takes out you as an accelerationist.

You do understand that we’ve grown our protests from a few hundred thousand to ~10M in four months with this method, right? Yet you’re encouraging small factions of violence which have repeatedly proven throughout history to have failed against dictatorships?

Your agenda is clear. Keep your accelerationist takes out of my nation, comrade.

[-] amino 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

this is exactly why y'all get called blue MAGA. when your orgs lynch a Pacific Islander and barely miss their shot on a leftist Venezuelan, it's a "good-will effort" to "prevent outside agitators". literal KKK propaganda adapted for liberal sensibilities:

The southern white defensive refrain of “outside-agitators” in the early Cold War years, as used by segregationists, merged traditional themes together with the politics of anti- Communism, thus taking the South’s regional ideology of xenophobia and connecting it with more mainstream American nationalistic impulses. Just as Lewis (2004) sees Cold War anti-Communism as a revitalizing force in the older tradition of states’ rights argumentation, he similarly describes the re-emergence of the white southern notion of “outside agitators” as becoming almost completely synonymous with the perceived foreign influence of Communist subversion.

Most white Southerners were traditionally wary of “outsiders,” a term that they employed somewhat idiosyncratically to denote anyone unsympathetic to the regions racial practices. As outsiders, so it was argued, not only did agitators have no right to comment on the South’s racial situation, but they could also not hope to grasp its subtleties. Communists fitted the southern perception of “outsiders” perfectly and were depicted as intent on bringing racial tumult to the region to rival that wrought by Reconstruction. One of the most popular ways of attempting to retard such an upheaval, therefore, was to suggest that it was communist-inspired.

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[-] Coolkat@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago

Organisation overthrows regimes, not protests. Ends are an entirely different issue

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[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

America is too violent. Any turn that involves racial justice or queer rights will be resisted with staggering violence. Anything that liberates children. Anything that sevures womens' rights or reduces the power if the church.

Hell, anything that tries to cut police funding or end slavery would be stepped on so hard. It will not be nonviolent, though many non violent things are also necessary to get a good outcome. I wish the choice of whether things get violent or not were ours, but it simply isn't.

Getting slaughtered serenely is not peaceful or nonviolent. Its masochistic.

[-] gandalf_der_12te 2 points 1 week ago

Also remember that economics is a hella important consideration. Most conflicts are decided by who can stay solvent longer.

[-] ornery_chemist@mander.xyz 14 points 1 week ago

The local reenactors' reading out the Grievances this year certainly hits a bit different.

[-] gandalf_der_12te 5 points 1 week ago

just you wait, they're gonna make the reenactments illegal for being "un-american" or sth

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Thank you comrade <3

The US government causes so much suffering across the world. The ability of the world to still distinguish between estadounidense and our institutions is cherished.

[-] cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 week ago

i wish me a very get the fuck out of this fucking country as soon as i can

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 7 points 1 week ago

As you can see, the hundredth monkey effect seems more like spitting in one hand and wishing in the other.

[-] Ilixtze@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago

I'm not very hopeful, maybe they will watch a tv show or play a videogame about revolting.

[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Okay but i was finishing watching 'andor' last week and fell behind on chores like keeping my window seals good (the tape flexes and sometimes unsticks with the summer heat) and the tear gas started leaking in and it was so annoying.

So, you know, it's almost as good.

[-] nanoswarm9k@lemmus.org 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Thank you! #solidarityforever

[-] Commiunism@beehaw.org 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The revolution in question: endless amount of protests that are supported by "progressive bilionaires" like il Duce intended

Kinda wish they didn't have an actual revolution yet, cause at this point all it'd cause is a fuckton of deaths just to put a group like democrats back in power, then for reactionaries to go back into power democratically a couple years later. People there are genuinely blind to their predicament still, thinking the problem is just Trump.

[-] gandalf_der_12te 3 points 1 week ago

The democrats are part of the system today and people have yet to fully realize that. We need a grounds-up new approach to politics. That takes time to organically grow.

I know in a few cities in CA tgat i have any vibe check on, the dems, especially after trying so hard to ratfuck zohran the destroyer, do not have much good will

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this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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