Unregulated anarchy vs nanny state. There's a wide spectrum in between we can argue about, but let's not get too far toward either extreme.
Kinder eggs should NOT be banned, and Americans have an inferior product because of it.
........but also I agree with the banning of Red dye #3.
It's banned in the US because we're sue-crazy. Companies can't rely on the common sense of their customers here. Even if the egg comes with a blinking neon sign that says there's a non edible toy inside, someone would sue (and win!) claiming that it's not enough and the toy shouldn't be there in the first place.
I was about to protest, but grog calls for red dye #2, so we're all good.
In a right wing "anarchy", dangerous foods will appear in the markets all the time.
In a left wing anarchist society, the community would consult their experts on food safety then band together and colletively stop making such foods, and stop importing those from other communities.
That's anarchy? Wow, that's dumb. They should not just collectively decide something. They should write down what they decided so that people who couldn't attend or that later come from outside the community know what has been decided. Or, even better, if I know I can't participate in the decision (or don't want to) I should be able to pass my voice to somebody who's there who I trust. Or, even better, just in case that person spontaneously gets sick or dies, to a group of people. Maybe, to get some consistency with people getting to know the details of the decision making process and the prior decisions, only redistribute these stand in votes every few years or so. Just to get the anarchy organised a bit.
That sounds great!
Wait a minute... That doesn't sound like anarchy... That sounds like democracy!
I have to admit I never really understood how anarchist societies were supposed to work. Now that you've pointed out they are just people banding together to make collective decisions based on expert information, I can't fathom why I ever thought they could go wrong.
Simple: they wouldn't work that way.
Left anarchism, like everything left, only works on paper.
Here's a few holes:
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Who decides who is and isn't an expert? Jim Jones was considered an expert by the Jonestown people, RFK is considered one by maga.
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Assuming we find a way to establish an "expert" category of citizens, that's already hierarchical. You now have a ruling class since these people get more of a say than the average person by virtue of their role, and don't have a completely flat anarchist society anymore but instead a sort of representative technocracy.
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Moreover anarchist societies are supposed to not employ coercion, so even if you had experts whose opinion dictates norms, how are you going to enforce them?
Anarchists (left and right) reinvent the state, just shittier, less consistent, and without founding principles, every time they are put in front of the practical needs of a society where not everyone agrees with them.
Some go as far as inventing authoritarian oligarchies, just ones they happen to agree with and thus support.
Some go as far as inventing authoritarian oligarchies
tankies are authoritarian, their "leftism" is just a disguise to obtain power
They are authoritarian and marxist leftists, they are not mutually exclusive, if anything they are more likely bedfellows than not, by necessity.
You can't have a free economy without decentralised price controls (i.e. a market) and you can't have a market without ownership, so you will eventually end up having a control economy if you remove private ownership from the equation, and control economies are fundamentally authoritarian.
The ultimate means of production is the person, and you don't get to own it exclusively, even if it's yourself.
As a (social) anarchist, yeah there's a wide range. The government shouldn't tell people what they're allowed to eat, in my opinion, but they should protect them from dangers and exploitation. We don't usually have the tools, or the time, to test all our food to ensure safety. We need government oversight for that. However, they shouldn't go too far beyond that and force us to eat particular things.
This would mean they'd be against food safety regulations, would it not?
It would not.
Having traffic laws isn't the same as banning cars, either.
This would mean they’d be against food safety regulations, would it not?
It would not.
Having traffic laws isn’t the same as banning cars, either.
Of course it is. Part of traffic legislation literally involves banning certain types of vehicles, either in certain areas or on any kind of public road in general.
Exaclty ... certain types in certain areas with a reason. That's regulation. You wouldn't just ban all vehicles. Do I really have to spell this out?
are you being intentionally obtuse? obviously they wouldn't ban all vehicle, that wasn't suggested in the OP either.
Are you?
We're talking about banning one of the major things that is food. If you ban meat, you only have plants and fungi left. So yes, I think banning an entire branch of transportation is a decent analogy.
Most cities do ban many cars, because they harm air quality.
Buying meat supports an industry that also causes immense climate destruction, so it's the same idea
You're talking about two different things.
Context was the idea of a government banning certain popular foods
This would mean they'd be against food safety regulations, would it not?
It's entirely possible to be in favor of food safety regulations and opposed to the government banning foods outright. In fact, I think one could safely presume that those are the positions most commonly held by most people.
Horse meat is illegal.
Having ate horse in the past - when it was legal I can assure you that the ban is entirely a perfect example of needless regulation. I never had it , but friends of mine said the best 'buffalo wings' they ever had was from a resteraunt that was shutdown for serving dog - they were catching local pets which is a good regulation, but the lack of legal ability to get dog is needless.
Americans are weird about dogs - a dog farm would be burned to the ground (with the farmers in it) if ever someone tried to set one up here. Any other social issue sure, it'll be american pseudofascist insanity, but man don't mess with the puppies. We care way more about them than other humans.
No it isn’t. Not in Canada anyway.
It means that they’re not a nuanced thinker.
There's a big difference between food safety and not eating meat. One is about companies putting dangerous stuff in food that can potentially harm people, the other is about something which humans have been eating ever since they existed. I understand that there are some arguments to be given about why we shouldn't eat meat, but those are definitely not as widely supported as disallowing the companies to inject "poison" into our food. In my opinion banning meat definitely would go way too far, the cost of banning meat far exceeds the benefits for public wellbeing.
I come from a dynasty of educators. I cannot emphasize that enough. At Christmas I had to explain what a molecule was. Amongst them were several teachers and administrative individuals.
At some point, you need to revisit and refresh your understanding of the world. People can and do forget information they learned 30 or 40 years ago if they're not making use of it on at least a semi-regular basis.
Bro, a molecule! I do Uber so I'm definitely not using chemistry on a day to day basis. But a fucking molecule‽ Come on man...
I'd like the government to suggest things, and point to the science on things, but to leave the informed choice ultimately up to me.
I want them to deny bad actors the ability to sell dangerous foods on the open market.
Informed choice should be between safe products.
Do you have a degree in chemistry? How do you know which 7 syllable words on the side of the box are dangerous and which ones aren't?
In an unregulated market, who is there to say that the ingredients even need to be listed on the box?
Every purchase can be like its own little surprise!
Should the government simply suggest companies accurately label the contents of food products?
Aaaand now the town's water supply has murcury in it, thanks.
Most people who say that do so for dogmatic reasons, not because they arrived at this conclusion after careful analysis. It's the political point of small government.
These are the same people who will probably be first in line shouting for government intervention when their drinking water is full of chemical waste.
You can try to reason with folks like that but you probably won't change their mind. Just try not to shout at them.
Yes. People who oppose science-backed food regulations are dumb or selfish or both
I don't think they thought about it very much. It's like that spongebob meme where patrick has the wallet. Or the Friends one that I don't know the name of the template. You could go point by point building up a case for why there should be government regulations, but as soon as you say like "regulation" they go "Nope bad"
Though some people really do believe they as a rugged individual will be able to research and test all of their food without an FDA or whatever. If they buy bread that has sawdust in it, they'll be able to tell, and somehow get a refund, or buy some other bread that doesn't have sawdust. That seems like a lot of work and optimism compared to regulations and inspections by qualified professionals earlier in the process.
i feel like there's a lot of astroturfing in the comments here, how depressing
I think it's more like government can ban what can be sold as food and make advice. They can't really stop you from drinking bleach or eating the grass in your yard or whatever. They can only prevent you from feeding it to someone else or selling it as food.
Meat isn't a food that could be banned in the same way as, say, Red Dye #4 or force-hydrogenated fats or high fructose corn syrup. They could make farmers cull whole herds of cows if mad cow broke out i guess, but there are wild hogs, backyard chickens and goats, it's just not a controllable food.
Yum tasty cardboard is back on the menu. /s
Hyperbole-loving drama queens.
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