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[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 153 points 3 months ago

This is also why hunting vests are bright orange. Easy for humans to spot, and deer get confused by there being a fucking tiger loose in New England.

[-] Lyrl@lemm.ee 14 points 3 months ago

Apparently pink works as well, if a hunter wants a second color vest

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 12 points 3 months ago

That works on the same principle, except the deer thinks you're a panther.

[-] Deepus@lemm.ee 12 points 3 months ago

I always wondered about that, thanks.

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[-] VivianRixia@piefed.social 83 points 3 months ago

So was it just random that their fur is orange and not green? As both would help hunt prey just as well. Or is the advantage of being orange, that it wards away other tigers and predators that might otherwise muscle into its territory and create conflict.

[-] Catoblepas 175 points 3 months ago

It’s also orange because mammals can’t produce green pigments, so orange is the next best thing if your prey is red-green colorblind.

[-] Umbrias@beehaw.org 16 points 3 months ago

more accurately, orange pigments are readily available. Nothing fundamentally stops mammals (or anything else) from developing a green. Note for example many animals have green eyes.

[-] Catoblepas 22 points 3 months ago

From what I understand green eyes are a bit weird as far as coloration goes, as they look green due to the way light is interacting with small amounts of melanin in the iris (the same pigment that makes eyes brown) rather than due to green pigment. I’m not sure that could be replicated in fur vs in a liquid environment like with the eye.

Birds mimic green colored pigments with iridescence (except turacos, they have green pigments for real) in their feathers, but I’m not sure that’s something mammals can do structurally in fur the way birds can in feathers.

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[-] NarrativeBear@lemmy.world 34 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

This is probably an example of natural evolution/selection where tigers that had slowly evolved more orange in their fur naturally, were able to feed more. This in turn meant the orange triat in their genes was passed on more frequently and became more dominant in the population.

In a sense it was probably a "random" mutation, but when it became useful and effective it was passed down quicker.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 7 points 3 months ago

But deer vision is immutable god creation. Checkmate.

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[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 13 points 3 months ago

Are there any green animals that aren't reptiles, birds or insects? That might be a clue.

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[-] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

Yellows and browns and orange are a lot more related, and whatever color the pre-orange tiger ancestor was, it was almost certainly one of those.

Natural variation in the coat means some of those tigers were more orange than their peers. This trait was selected for.

[-] dnick@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Probably both, except within the bounds of easily 'random' bounds. Supposing it were possible for a mammal to be green, it wouldn't matter of green were 'better', unless it happened at the right time. Orange could have won out simply because it was good enough to do one thing (camoflauge for pretty) and didn't have enough downside to message that benefit (high visibility to hunters or less valuable prey). Heck, a gene that turned a lion invisible could have turned up and it wouldn't be guaranteed to carry forward even if it didn't have any downsides if the random recipient also happened to be clumsy or unlucky and died of some random injury or disease.

Evolution doesn't really have any tools that aren't random, at least until intelligence came around to provide other 'non natural' paths, though of course those are just as natural as the others, just that we think we're special and above nature.

[-] bonsai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 80 points 3 months ago

Meanwhile my colorblind ass:

[-] tetris11@lemmy.ml 56 points 3 months ago

Do tigers themselves see themselves as orange, or are they genuinely surprised when humans easily spot them hiding in the grass?

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 39 points 3 months ago

My cats are surprised both by me seeing them sitting on an empty floor, and by other cats who they didn't see sitting on the floor.

So I can only conclude the answer is semi-perpetual amazement.

[-] goodwipe@lemmy.ca 49 points 3 months ago

The green image of the tiger is terrifying. You wouldn't see it until it's eyes or teeth were baring down on you in a lush green forest. Thankfully humans weren't it's main prey and therefore it likely evolved to appear orange instead...

[-] JillyB@beehaw.org 26 points 3 months ago

I'm colorblind and the images are nearly identical. Good thing I'm not in tiger habitats very often.

[-] vithigar@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 months ago

Same. Didn't even realise they were different images until after I read the text.

[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 38 points 3 months ago

Tigers are generally crepuscular which means they’re most active around dawn or dusk, when the sun is very low in the sky. Their orange fur does not stand out so well when everything looks orange under the golden light of dawn.

[-] JimVanDeventer@lemmy.world 35 points 3 months ago

Thank you, evolution, for allowing me to see orange so I can get an head start and outrun a mother fucking tiger!

[-] jwt@programming.dev 32 points 3 months ago

outrun a mother fucking tiger

You only need to outrun your travelbuddy.

[-] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

Especially if your travel buddy is your mother.

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[-] Acamon@lemmy.world 31 points 3 months ago

Is that why cats can be so ginger and still good hunters? My orange stands out so much in the garden, but maybe to dichromatic mice he's super stealthy?

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[-] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 28 points 3 months ago

Wouldn't a mutation in the deer sight to see orange be vastly evolutionary beneficial?

[-] superniceperson@sh.itjust.works 28 points 3 months ago

Only in areas with tigers, and then it would only express itself enough if there were enough evolutionary pressure exclusively on that survival tactic.

As long as other causes of death happen to deer in tiger territories and as long as speed remains a good survival strategy, minor mutations that would only provide an advantage in extreme specific scenarios like a tiger stalking them wouldn't have a chance to be spread.

There's also a whole host of additional brain power that needs to be dedicated to more complex colour blending and processing, and that may add enough delay to offset any potential gain in recognizing a threat.

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[-] apotheotic@beehaw.org 11 points 3 months ago

Presumably yes, but its still down to a roll of the dice whether a mutation like that happens in the first place, and whether the individuals who have that mutation live long enough to breed, and whether that mutation actually gets passed down, etc

[-] Xatolos@reddthat.com 11 points 3 months ago

It could, but it might also lead to something harmful for the deer at the same time. I'm not sure if the gene affecting the deer's eyesight is known, but it could be a pleiotropic gene (a gene that influences multiple traits at once).

If that's the case, and the other effect is negative and somehow spreads through the population, it could become a future issue for the deer. Think about humans—we lost the ability to produce our own vitamin C. Almost every other mammal can produce their own (except for hamsters). When this happened, it didn’t harm us right away, so it spread through the population. But over time, it led to issues that weren’t a problem before, like scurvy.

Same could happen to the deer.

[-] hexabs@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

And then soon we'd have green tigers.

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[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago

Do the tigers know they are orange?

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago

Do humans know tigers are green?

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[-] lugal@sopuli.xyz 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

No, they too are dichromats

[-] MyNameIsAtticus@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago

Desperately need me a community just for tiger facts like this and pictures of tigers. Greatest of the Big Cats

[-] Hikermick@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Thank you for subscribing to Big Cat Facts

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[-] MECHAGODZILLA2@midwest.social 15 points 3 months ago

Oooh I just thought nature was fucking stupid

[-] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 10 points 3 months ago

This must be utterly terrifying for them.

[-] Owlboi@lemm.ee 9 points 3 months ago

this sounds dumb. if that was the reason then why arent they just green so that theyre camoflaged to EVERY animal and not just those with bad eyes

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 60 points 3 months ago

Mammals don't come in green. We have 2 colours available to us, in different amounts: eumelanin, which is dark brown to black, and pheomelanin, which is yellow/red. We can mix those up in any way, or none (for white), but it'll never be green.

Now, many other animals don't have green either, peacock feathers for example, have brown pigment, but they have a structure that makes it look green and blue from wave interference.

Unfortunately, you can't really do that with fur, since you need to look at fur from all directions, not just the front.

So, mammals don't get green fur.

[-] renamon_silver@lemmy.wtf 12 points 3 months ago

Then how do you explain this?

[-] JPAKx4 26 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Evolution is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks (by sticking I mean reproducing bc you have better traits). If every single one of their prey and predators have this color blindness then orange and green would have the same effectiveness and whichever trait comes out first. If a prey/predator evolved to have better color vision then it would quickly become a disadvantage and after millions of years it's possible they evolve to have green fur.

There could be other benefits like being easier to attract mates.

Also some animals can see infrared, so even if their fur was perfect for the environment they could still have issues by being spotted, in which case the color doesn't matter as much and the colors for mating becomes more important.

Edit: Wording.

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[-] Phineaz@feddit.org 13 points 3 months ago

A) Evolution is not directed. If a pre-tiger happens to be a more advantageous colour, it will have more offspring. There is no goal.

B) An orange tiger has the same camouflage from its prey's point of view as a green one, which is the thing that really matters. There is only one species a tiger is afraid of, and it's humans. I would wager that the orange also happens to act as a signal colour, both to other tigers and other predators (such as humans). Less run-ins and less territorial dispute sound pretty good.

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this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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