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[-] HikingVet@lemmy.ca 148 points 3 months ago

Well, I was on the fence about Carney, now I see he won't be totally awful for the country.

[-] 60d@lemmy.ca 44 points 3 months ago

At least he answers questions comprehensively.

[-] carotte 14 points 3 months ago

he still refused to recognize a Palestinian state

[-] HikingVet@lemmy.ca 23 points 3 months ago

won't be totally awful

Yes there is some (a lot of) room for improvement.

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[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 121 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Ha, "civilization". So that's what they're calling genocide today. Netanyahu needs to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 44 points 3 months ago

Isn't that the standard line when it comes to people settling land with pre-existing tenants?

[-] CowsLookLikeMaps@sh.itjust.works 27 points 3 months ago

This is the same rhetoric that was used in Canada's genocide of indigenous peoples.

Part of reconciliation is denouncing what happened in Canada, which is still being felt today, and working towards reparations that are led by Indigenous peoples. We must learn from what happened and do better. But it is all in vain if we support the same atrocities being committed in other parts of the world.

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[-] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 100 points 3 months ago

Stacks of dead innocent people and he thinks the other guys are the barbarians. Irresponsible statement?! HAHAHA. Get fucked you murderous piece of shit! There is no justification for what you are doing. And who cares about your one and only state. You don't deserve it.

[-] wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 88 points 3 months ago

I hate Hamas but the way Israel is dealing with this is horrible.

It doesn’t have to black and white or antisemitic to say that.

And yes, Hamas is playing an asymmetrical game and using the rules of engagement as a shield, but that’s still not an excuse for leveling entire cities and indiscriminately killing civilians, or blocking aid that you could instead be supervising.

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 80 points 3 months ago

Bibi is a fascist authoritarian, a war criminal, and is so corrupt he's facing jail when he leaves office. He is no better than Hamas.

Zionism is literally religious nationalism — which shouldn't be tolerated by ANY religion — therefore Israel IS a fascist state. Society needs to stop acting like it's okay for the abused to become the abuser because they were abused. It was never okay, and it still isn't.

[-] aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee 22 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

He is never leaving office. In the very unlikely event that the Israeli people start to turn on him I am like 90% sure he will try to pull off a coup and/or a false flag op rather than leave peacefully and face the music

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 17 points 3 months ago

that's why he needs this war to keep going and the genocide to continue

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[-] plaguesandbacon@lemmy.ca 35 points 3 months ago

The only people using human shields are the IDF

[-] ninthant@lemmy.ca 10 points 3 months ago

The only people using human shields are the IDF

This is unquestionably false.

You can make an extremely compelling argument about the horrors that the govt of Israel and the IDF are doing without resorting to obvious falsehoods made in defence of Hamas.

I’m not saying we need to adopt some “all sides bad” enlightened centrism bullshit. If you want to focus only on the atrocities of the govt of Israel because that’s your passion: go for it. Call them out for what they are.

But please don’t defend Hamas or pretend they aren’t also committing atrocities. They do use human shields, constantly. And the atrocities done by Hamas do not take away from the absolute horrors of what the government of Israel is actively committing.

When these falsehoods emerge, it makes the argument against Israel appear delusional and undercuts your implied objective. And it’s not necessary! There is so much widespread harm that we can point to, we don’t need spread falsehoods for that.

[-] polyploy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 3 months ago

Speaking of obvious falsehoods, I'm going to ask you to provide a single verifiable report of Hamas using human shields from anyone not directly tied to the Israeli state.

Not the distortion of humanitarian law which assumes that the mere presence of unarmed people suspected of being affiliated with Hamas means any civilians around them are "shields", because unarmed people regardless of affiliation are not lawful combatants.

Not the absurd claim that suspected tunnels underneath civilians justify the massacre of those civilians in order to target military infrastructure.

Not the unverified testimonies of people with a history of fabricating lies on behalf of the Israeli government.

Just any single instance of someone in Hamas forcing a nearby civilian to endanger their life on their behalf, from a source that is not ultimately the Israeli government or military itself.

Quoting from the UN report "Anatomy of a genocide", I have edited out the annotations but there are sources for every single one of the claims listed if you would like to verify yourself:

IHL strictly prohibits the use of human shields. Their use constitutes a war crime, as it violates the duty to protect the civilian population from dangers arising from military operations. When human shields are used, the attacking party must take into account the risk to civilians. Indiscriminate or disproportionate harm to civilians remains unlawful and the civilian population can never be targeted.

Israel has accused Palestinian armed groups of deliberately using civilians as human shields in previous aggressions on Gaza (including in 2008-09, 2012, 2014, 2021 and 2022). It also used it to justify high civilian casualties and attacks against paramedics, journalists and others during the 2018–2019 ‘Great March of Return’. UN independent fact-finding missions and reputable human rights organizations have consistently challenged these allegations, sometimes concluding that evidence of human shields had been fabricated. Nevertheless, Israel has used these accusations – sometimes then retracted – to justify widespread and systematic killing of Palestinian civilians in its ongoing assault.

After 7 October, this macro-characterization of Gaza’s civilians as a population of human shields has reached unprecedented levels, with Israel’s top-ranking political and military leaders consistently framing civilians as either Hamas operatives, “accomplices”, or human shields among whom Hamas is “embedded”. In November, Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs defined “the residents of the Gaza Strip as human shields” and accused Hamas of using “the civilian population as human shields”. The Ministry defines armed groups fighting from urban areas as deliberately “embedded” in the population to such an extent that it “cannot be concluded from the mere fact that seeming ‘civilians’ or ‘civilian objects’ have been targeted, that an attack was unlawful”. Two rhetorical elements of this key legal policy document indicate the intention to transform the entire Gaza population and its infrastructures of life into a ‘legitimate’ targetable shield: the use of the all-encompassing the combined with the quotation marks to qualify civilians and civilian objects. Israel has thus sought to camouflage genocidal intent with humanitarian law jargon.

International law does not permit the blanket claim that an opposing force is using the entire population as human shields en bloc. Any such usage must be assessed and established on a case-by-case basis before each individual attack. The crime of using human shields occurs when the use of civilians or civilian objects to impede attacks on lawful targets is the result of a deliberate tactical choice, not merely arising from the nature of the battlefield, such as hostilities in densely populated urban terrain.

Nevertheless, Israeli authorities have characterized churches, mosques, schools, UN facilities, universities, hospitals and ambulances as connected with Hamas to reinforce the perception of a population characterized as broadly ‘complicit’ and therefore killable. Significant numbers of Palestinian civilians are defined as human shields simply by being in “proximity to” potential Israeli targets. Israel has thus transformed Gaza into a “world without civilians” in which “everything from taking shelter in hospitals to fleeing for safety is declared a form of human shielding”. The accusation of using human shields has thus become a pretext, justifying the killing of civilians under a cloak of purported legality, whose all-enveloping pervasiveness admits only of genocidal intent.

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[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 16 points 3 months ago

They do use human shields, constantly.

Citation needed.

[-] bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net 13 points 3 months ago

What atrocities? You would think if it was actually bad Israel would allow freedom of press in Palestine. How many reporters have been injured or killed, and by whom?

[-] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 12 points 3 months ago

Bruh it’s happened so much there’s an Israeli High Court case that specifically forbids the practice. Hasn’t prevented the practice, there are multiple documented instances, from different conflicts, that the Jewish group B’Tslem has a white paper on just the subject of IDF using human shields:

…soldiers have ordered Palestinians to:

-enter buildings to check if they are booby-trapped, or to remove the occupants

-remove suspicious objects from roads used by the army

-stand inside houses where soldiers have set up military positions, so that Palestinians will not fire at the soldiers

-walk in front of soldiers to shield them from gunfire, while the soldiers hold a gun behind their backs and sometimes fire over their shoulders.

The soldiers in the field did not initiate this practice; rather, the use of human shields is an integral part of the orders they receive.

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[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 33 points 3 months ago

And yes, Hamas is playing an asymmetrical game and using the rules of engagement as a shield

They're not, for the most part. This is Israeli propaganda that really took hold, but there was never any evidence for the human shields stuff.

[-] polyploy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 3 months ago

Yep it's actually Israel that has routinely and systematically employed captured Palestinians as human shields. For some background, there is this recent article in Haaretz stemming from anonymous IDF soldier reports, titled "In Gaza, Almost Every IDF Platoon Keeps a Human Shield, a Sub-army of Palestinian Slaves".

[-] polyploy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 3 months ago

If anyone is distorting rules of engagement and humanitarian law, it's actually Israel. Something that has come up again and again, especially in the writing of UN Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese, is the concept of "humanitarian camouflage" and how the Israeli state has very deliberately misused terms of international humanitarian law to cynically redefine civilian people, structures, and infrastructure as military targets. I am going to quote from an article she co-authored (available here):

The article analyzes the components of this humanitarian camouflage, unveiling how it has been deployed by Israel as a legal-political strategy in the service of a war of total annihilation. We start by examining how, since October 7, Israel has justified its genocidal campaign in Gaza using two registers: on one hand, a brutal register of dehumanization of the Palestinian population of Gaza, construed as a terrorist population to be eliminated; on the other hand—and simultaneously—a liberal register to legitimize its eliminationist violence in the face of its international allies’ audience, disguising it as compliance with IHL.

We then expand the analysis of the second register, showing how the Israeli military, mimicking IHL language, has construed the entirety of the built-up areas of Gaza as a continuum of alleged military objectives, reclaiming the ‘right’ to ‘lawfully’ raze houses, schools, mosques, churches, hospitals, entire neighborhoods, and entire cities to the ground, including the infrastructures indispensable for the survival of the civilian population, rendering the living space of the victim group unlivable. Subsequently, we examine how lethal distortions of the IHL concept of proportionality and collateral damage have been functional in construing entire masses of civilians as killable surroundings of military objectives with a diminished, or non-existent, right to life.

The analysis continues by showing how an array of IHL concepts like safe zones, evacuations, human shields, and “hospital shields” have been mobilized by Israel as technologies of settler-colonial displacement and genocide, creating conditions of life leading to the destruction of Gaza’s Palestinians “in whole or in part.” The article concludes by arguing that the settler-colonial genocidal war against Gaza, and Israel’s marshalling of international humanitarian law to legitimize it, ultimately shows that the international order has reached a tipping point whereby political acquiescence towards Israel and its legitimization as an international law-abiding state eviscerates the key legal tools the international community has developed to prevent international crimes. If tolerated, condoned, and unpunished, this process may inaugurate a new era of mass atrocities against protected groups in the Global South, in which big powers will be able to portray genocides as ‘incidental’ and ‘proportionate’ means to achieve their war aims.

I highly recommend reading the three reports issued by the UN on these matters, "Genocide as colonial erasure" which focuses more on historical context, "Anatomy of a genocide" which covers more of the present patterns of conflict, and finally "More than a human can bear" which covers the widespread and systematic use of gendered and sexual violence inflicted on Palestinians.

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[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 76 points 3 months ago

Bibi, the Liberals are already going to win, you don't need to help them!

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 16 points 3 months ago

Good thing Canada would have to arrest him if he steps foot here. Otherwise he'd have come to 69 PP. That'd push the libs to the moon.

[-] discomatic@lemmy.ca 67 points 3 months ago

It boggles my mind every day that a fucking Jew would commit genocide. Goddamn.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 24 points 3 months ago

Conservatives are literally all the same.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago

Why? The Jews of Israel and the Jews of the Holocaust are in large part wildly unrelated and for the most part camp survivors spoke out against Israel rather coming out for it.

It's very effective propaganda on their part because most people can't be bothered to learn facts.

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[-] whotookkarl@lemmy.world 59 points 3 months ago

Imagine the lack of self-reflection to call someone a barbarian while committing genocide to steal more land from Palestine. I can't apprehend the confusion of thought necessary to think this way without starting with some blunt force trauma to the noggin.

[-] lobut@lemmy.ca 15 points 3 months ago

There's no self-reflection at all.

To him, he's not committing "genocide", he's "protecting his people from terrorists".

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[-] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 49 points 3 months ago

"civilization" vs "barbarians"

Typical speech for those trying to justify genocide.

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[-] Kaput@lemmy.world 48 points 3 months ago

Shit did Carney criticize Israel? He gonna get 90%in my riding anyway, but I might change from bloc to liberal if it's a proper critic.

[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 26 points 3 months ago

Sort of, but he mostly walked it back. Hard to tell if he's doing it to get through the election. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-clarifies-genocide-remarks-1.7506027

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Is this what triggered Bibi?? Nothing else happened?

[-] cecilkorik@lemmy.ca 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Israel is always on a hair-trigger against the faintest whiff of criticism. It's why almost everybody of any significance is terrified of giving them even the faintest whiff of criticism even when they richly and profoundly deserve it. Dictators often fall into the same trap (aptly named the "Dictator trap") when they make their administrations and subordinates afraid to criticize them and as a result end up finding themselves surrounded by yes-men and sycophants and become increasingly disconnected from reality. Criticism is necessary and important feedback for any nation, organization or person, and by instantly denying it and calling every hint of criticism "anti-semitism" Israel have spent decades robbing themselves of the ability to use any criticism to learn and guide their own actions. It's sad, because it's actually very understandable why Israel is so sensitive to criticism after what they lived through in WW2. We are literally seeing the legacy of generational trauma on a national scale. They now hurt others because they have been hurt so badly themselves. They are even hurting themselves because they are so afraid of being hurt again.

The reason they think all their actions in Gaza are completely justified is because they have pre-emptively shouted down anyone who might give them any contrary idea. Even people who are Jewish or Israeli are accused of anti-semitism if they criticize settlers, zionism, the IDF, or anything else Israel does. When you refuse to even engage with any views contrary to your own established point of view, you're creating an information bubble which may or may not have any basis in reality, and you'll never even be able to know whether your position is based in reality or not because you're simply not engaging with any other views that could ground you in reality.

[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 months ago

Well, the head of a G7 country accusing him of genocide is a pretty big deal.

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[-] carotte 42 points 3 months ago

Canada has always sided with civilization

well that’s one way of saying it

[-] SirMaple__@lemmy.ca 27 points 3 months ago
[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 26 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

"Israeli fascist, go fuck yourself."

[-] Critical_Thinker@lemm.ee 23 points 3 months ago

I swear the nation of israel is trying to go down with the ship that is the trump administration.

No nation, or organization should be able to get away with murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians just because they want their land.

[-] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 20 points 3 months ago

Bibby has a weird definition for civilized I bet.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 14 points 3 months ago

I think you'll find it's very, very typical historically.

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[-] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 3 months ago

It's ok Bibi, I was already gonna vote for him

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[-] Allonzee@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

Ok BB Hitler.

[-] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 13 points 3 months ago

Since when did war crimes count as just means?

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 13 points 3 months ago

Stfu and go to The Hague you fuckin low life war criminal

[-] RushLana 11 points 3 months ago

On how many layer of facism someone needs to be to say that Canada as always been on the side of Civilisation ?

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[-] Jumi@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago

He sounds like Hitler when he talked about the Soviets

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this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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