If "due process" only applies to US citizens, then no one has due process. Because all they have to do is claim you're not a US citizen and then there's no due process by which you can refute their claim.
Yes but understanding that requires second order reasoning skills, and most Americans don't even have first order.
I mean yes but also this is literally an argument that was used to deny african americans rights that they weren't citizens of any country so had no for example "due process".
It states all 'persons' not all citizens. It comes off as them not knowing this. Blatant ignorance of the constitution.
"Don't care."
Not just blatantly ignorant, willfully choosing to ignore the Constitution even when confronted with it.
Probably a White House official then
A reminder about your rights. If the government can declare you to have an attribute that negates your rights, then you have no rights.
In laymen's terms, if ICE arrests you and fast deports you, whose going to stop them? Okay but you get to a consulate in the foreign country and get back home. When you come out of your lawyer's office (because you're suing ICE), ICE arrests you again, this time as a criminal illegal alien because you came back in. They tell no one they have you, they tell no one where you are. You have no rights according to them. You are sent to an El Salvadoran prison in contravention of a court order not to deport you.
These are all things that have happened separately. We've accidently deported Americans. We've deported Americans on purpose. (Trump sent American kids away so he could deport their parents too) We've deported someone to an El Salvadoran prison in contravention of a court order.
If they don't have rights, then neither do you because the government can just declare you a member of that group and as long as the guys with guns maintain that fiction, nobody can stop them.
This is also why the attacks on identification documentation for transgender people should concern everyone. We used to consider ex post facto laws unconstitutional - even things like sex registry acts have been historically controversial because they were adding a punishment that had not been previously ordained.
I spent $5500 that I could not afford (as in, I ended up having to do sex work to pay for it) - to get my “irreversible and permanent” surgery that the state I lived in said would qualify to have my legal sex changed. Like, I would have preferred to wait until I was in a more financially stable situation or might not have even bothered because I didn’t even really need to bind to pass - but the drivers license with an “F” is a problem once you have a full beard.
I followed their rules, I played their games. And now they get to say, nope, doesn’t count anymore. That’s not how the law is supposed to work.
I'm so sorry, I don't think we live in a country subject to rule of law anymore though.
I’ve gotten the excuse to read both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution itself, out loud, with teenagers several times recently. Jefferson was a hypocrite and fuckwit that made money off of the back of child labor and raped the women he owned, but those words do have meaning. Any government calling itself the US that does not heed those words is not legitimate.
A reminder about your rights. If the government can declare you to have an attribute that negates your rights, then you have no rights.
Any time someone claims that some group of people should have no/reduced due process, I respond essentially the same way: "If you believe that $GROUP shouldn't have due process then you are a $GROUP_MEMBER. Prove you're not without any due process." Before this year, it was mostly people accused of sexual assault, but illegal immigrants are the new target of choice as people who allegedly don't deserve due process rights.
..PHP developer?
Even though being in the country undocumented is a civil offense, like speeding or something. Still, using language alone, they made this the one offense that supposedly makes a person be "illegal" — textbook dehumanization btw.
So it's legally on par with speeding, factually less dangerous than speeding, but somehow it's seen as the worst "crime" in the country, so bad that they argue it warrants suspending due process like you're at war or something. Manufactured delusion.
they made this the one offense that makes a person be "illegal"
It doesn't make the person be illegal, but we nounify crimes to describe people who have committed said crime all the time.
The whole point of the "undocumented worker" language is to make it sound like someone who misplaced some paperwork, rather than someone who violated immigration law.
I mean, no one gets mad when you use the more common terms to describe an undocumented procurement specialist, an adverse euthanasia specialist or an unauthorized sexual partner. Despite those terms describing the person as being their violation of law.
For sure. I just meant that they intentionally and repeatedly use this wording to obscure the fact that undocumented status isn't that big a problem (it doesn't hurt anyone except maybe the undocumented person), as well as to reinforce the idea on a subconscious level that they're somehow dangerous criminals.
When your knowledge of the constitution is based on vibes.
"The new trend 'Vibe Governing' is sweeping the nation as lawmakers just ask racist AIs with no knowledge of the bills they're actually writing"
definition of a bad actor right there.
People like her argue in bad faith.
Shun and ostracize people like her.
Remove them from your civil social circles.
Only side eye!
I think I just caught a glimpse of the suffering of Americans who use, well, American social media. Y'all have it rough.
We would have taken all of this a lot more seriously if we broadly understood that this group doesn't seek outcomes.
I know it seems loaded, but it solves so much of our bafflement. They don't care about outcomes, they don't want solutions or leadership or policies or better futures for themselves or anyone else.
They're just mad and stupid and the left did nothing to manage and redirect this toddlerish rage and incompetence, instead we pretended the system was fair and the idiots wouldn't have power because how could they. Naive and foolish on both sides.
If we worked harder to give these people better stories and targets to hate (hint: the rich really don't want a class war) then maybe they would have made better choices.
Yeah argue with one long enough and they basically just admit they don't care what happens what they love is "owning the libs" the more facts you show them that they can not respond to the more they think they are pissing you off and the more they get their rocks off. 100% they could not care less about any of the things they claim to revere, like the Constitution. Literally the only thing that makes them change their mind is when they realize the policies they voted for apply to them too.
One of my friends adult daughter is fully disabled mentally and physically and my friend can not even work the state pays her to be a caregiver for her child. They100% lives on state support programs. She voted for Trump, I told her before hand she is shooting everyone in the foot and shooting herself in the face with that vote,. She said she disagreed and things will get better for her that she is tired of liberals and "their immigrants" (???) taking part of the tax money that should be going to her and others like her. I was completely dumbfounded. I told her that is completely fabricated BS from Trump and it does not work that way but she told me I did not know what I was talking about, Trump wouldn't just lie about this stuff... yeah. She said THAT.
Now she is telling me how she is so scared they are going to cut her benefits after all the targeting of Social Security and that she felt so betrayed and she thought there was no way Trump would betray his voters like this and there was no way she could have known Trump would have done something this terrible.... I had to look at her and ask how she could have NOT known when I fucking told her multiple times. She finally realized after I said that that I was right. So she knows and will admit she was wrong now. None of my other friends have been affected yet but having talked to them none of them will change their minds until it hurts them or their family directly. Most of them are good enough friends they even admit that they don't care (or even pay attention to) what Trump does as long as it is pissing off the liberals they are happy. At least the first friend realized she was dumb about politics. She told me from now on she was just going to ask me who to vote for.... she is getting smarter about it at least.
They're just mad and stupid and the left did nothing to manage and redirect this toddlerish rage and incompetence, instead we pretended the system was fair and the idiots wouldn't have power because how could they. Naive and foolish on both sides.
Liberals did all that. The actual leftists have been saying for decades that this was exactly where liberal centrism was going to end up as the Democrats did everything they could to keep funneling money up to the top as well.
If others don't have rights, you don't either.
Without due process, we have no way to know for sure if they are 'illegal aliens' or just citizens with the wrong [fill in the blank].
Annie got a gun but not a brain. Without the right to due process for EVERYONE, the state can just snatch anyone they want off the street and claim the person they snatched is a member of a group that isn't entitled to due process. The person, even if they are a citizen, will have no hearing or trial, no right to contact anyone, and be whisked away to a secret prison labor camp or even a death camp. Hey Annie, I'm from the government and I've decided you look like a foreigner. No phone calls, no judge, no jury, straight to the camp with you. #Fascism #PoliceState #MagaIdiot
That about sums it up. They don't believe the outgroup deserves rights. But if the outgroup doesn't have rights nobody does, they're just privileges that can be taken away at any time
And, it should be noted, the purpose of due process includes to check if these people are breaking any rules and if they're supposed to be here as well as if they're citizens.
Rhetorical, just FYI. I’m an American in Germany and I’ve literally never met a native German speaker who wasn’t a linguistics professor who didn’t say “rethoric” though, so it’s not a big mistake at all. I do wonder if there was a misprint in a popular textbook or something though, because it’s weirdly consistent, even more so than I would expect from a word with a silent (in German) h somewhere.
It's a lot more unusual to have an h after an r than an h after a t, even in German. So if you vaguely remember there's supposed to be an h somewhere, it intuitively makes more sense after the t.
In German, "th" is uncommon (non-existent?) in words that aren't overtly borrowed from Latin/Greek, so you get overcompensation like "Ethymologie". "Rhythmus" trips me up every time.
I get their thought process. To them, the constitution applies only to US citizens. They are stupid fucks for sure, but I get it.
Isn't that the entire thought process behind Guantanamo? The constitution applies in the us, move them outside our borders and we can do whatever we want. By the same logic, the constitution applies to citizens (when on us soil), not a citizen, no constitutional protections.
To be clear, I'm entirely against this, and I don't think that's actually how our laws work, just furthering your point of understanding how the stupid fucks get there. The US has been skirting it's own laws and letter-of-the-lawing it to get around whatever it doesn't like + outright ignoring and violating our own laws when it suits us for so long that who the fuck knows what they'll do, and how they'll justify it, and who can blame a MAGAt for not knowing how it actually works
Boy, what a self aware example that shows of so many of the issues on the right.
I mean the us has never followed due process in the way advocates frame it. As well as this originalists like Thomas and Scalia have always opposed it. Look at dred scott for a history of this. Even in theory due process is not the greatest. This person is wrong and almost certainly extremely bigoted but not as " out there" as some of these comments think.
Pretty sure the idea of due process extends to ensuring the government respects "certain unalienable rights" that America recognizes all people are born with--that includes non-citizens
unalienable
non-american here, what is an "alien" in this context? i imagine it doesn't mean "extraterrestrial"
edit: actually nvm, i just searched it up. why are people being called aliens? does this word even fit that role?
I think it's the original definition of the word alien, but I might be wrong. Kinda derogatory now but still used in legal contexts
All she cares about it herself
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