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If only we had made a decision not to scrap the Avro Arrow. Thanks Diefenbaker.
the buck stops here
Doesn't give an actual reason
Gripen might be a stopgap, but it is an older platform. At least with updates it's at least considered a "4.5" generation fighter. F35 is pretty much the best option atm.
Planning ahead though, Canada needs to get involved with either GCAP (Global Combat Air Platform or FCAS (Future Combat Air System).
We can't realistically pull off another Avro Arrow with modern 5th/6th generation features by ourselves. We can partner with more reliable allies though, and help bolster our own defence aerospace industry at the same time. In either GCAP or FCAS, we would be the junior partner though.
I think Canada needs to accept a stopgap measure - the Gripen, Typhoon, Rafale, or Super Hornet - and dive headfirst into GCAP. FCAS is tempting as well, but GCAP is farther along and the countries are probably closer in goals to Canada.
I agree.
GCAP includes Japan (CPTPP partner), and they seem very motivated to not dawdle with getting a modern fighter. GCAP also includes the UK (CANZUK + NATO) and Italy (CETA/EU+NATO).
FCAS is France, Germany and Spain, off the top of my head, and has much less urgency. Of course that could be changing. They're all EU and NATO, so more eggs in a single basket, but more reliable than US.
One other edge to GCAP is that Sweden had considered joining GCAP, but backed out. They might get back in maybe? Saab is pretty damn competent as well. It would be an even better team. Plus if we went with Gripen and already had some cooperation with Saab, could be even easier to work together.
Perun had a good video a little while back… here it is https://youtu.be/TTjdEtHYDJ4
The Ottawa Citizen is American owned media pretending to be Canadian, infiltrating Canadian culture and politics.
I recommend putting a brief description of Postmedia Network somewhere noticeable on that post. Sort of like an abstract for an essay, maybe.
Done!
Typhoons lets gooooo
Just complain about multiple problems with the jet and cancel the order. Ask for a refund on the remaining jet. If no refund is given, advice Krasnov Trump that they will be sold to china.
He'd be OK with that.
Sell them to Cuba.
He wouldn't know what Cuba is. Sell them to France.
I mean yes but i also do not want a real war. Fascists looooove war. Americans too.
You really think anything Canada does is going to change the fascist's minds? They want to take Canada. They're going to try.
I mean if it really comes to war i atleast hope that the rest of NATO stands together but that would probably come down to ww3 so chances are they do not. That might also be what Drumpf speculates on.
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They lost the receipt so they can only get 50% store credit
*store credit cannot be redeemed for a Raptor
Canada can perhaps purchase from Turkiye or South Korea. Turkiye’s fifth gen fighter had its maiden flight recently but it is still a few years away from entering service.
I remember before the purchase was made, I was really hoping the government would purchase the Swedish Saab Gripen. I think it was one of the finalists for consideration (that's what I remembered from a few news casts at the time, but not sure if it was an actual finalist, or just someone saying they thought it would be a good option.)
The main reason for me thinking we should have gone with the Saab, was that I trusted buying from Sweden more than the US. I can see the US putting some systems in place that could give them control or some way to negatively affect the F-35s. I remember someone saying that countries don't have friends, only interests, but I'd still trust Sweden more than the US to not betray us in some way.
There's a problem with the engine. It's an US design and the US just blocked a sell to Colombia. I think Saab should make another design with the Typhoon engine or some other European engine that has roughly the same size and push.
Saab Gripen
The fighter from the 80s?
Yes, but it's been updated a lot since then, I think the current iteration is the E-series.
The biggest issue would be stopping sharing spares. Given the current government's proclivity for using any leverage they can get their hands on.... Well.... I'd be nervous if I'd bought them.
This would be easier if another ally (or an ally, rather) made a 5th gen fighter, but there are none. We'd be stuck either with ageing platforms or waiting another 10-15 years for Eoropeans to finish one of the 5th gens they're working on.
The problem is that in the event of a conflict with the US, those jets would be entirely unusable because they'd shut them down. And we'd be billions of dollars down.
It would be better to spend that money elsewhere, even if it's out of date, than to have nothing.
Pretty sure we couldn't buy enough of anything to make a difference against the US in even the long term. Except nukes. Those are the only feasible deterrents we could use.
Buys a shitload of drones. Just ask Russia how devastating those can be.
If US attacked Canada it would be a nightmare for them. Canada is huge. If you think Russia is having a hard time in Ukraine thst is just a small taste of it.
We def need to cancel the f-35 program.
Trump has destroyed American exceptionalism.
Screw this "waiting another 10-15 years." We need to join the GCAP program, and get seriously active.
Lead time is necessarily immense, but we could both shorten it and improve the end product.
"Waiting for someone else to develop" has been a symptom of Canada's Aerospace industry since the Arrow was shitcanned, and has crept into our national subconscious stream. We need to attack that attitude.
I'd be on board with that, but it doesn't solve the short-term problem. I seriously doubt our CF-18s will last another 15 years.
True enough, but we can get stopgap gen 4.5 fighters at about half the price of the F-35, and with a vastly lower operational cost.
Get a fleet of Gripen Es, and run them in parallel with our existing Hornets, replacing the Hornets as they age out over the next decade or so. By then the new GCAP fighter should be in full production.
How long would it take SAAB to ramp up? We're supposed to receive the first tranche of F35s next year.
At that point China, Russia and America will be at their 6th
China and America kinda already are, China has it's J-36 and J-50 prototypes flying right now, America supposedly flew a prototype associated with it's next-gen fighter program, but there's just some pictures of airframes on tarmac that nobody can identify so they assume it must be the next-gen fighter.
Well thats what we need to be putting our money in right now (speaking as a european). Even if america does not turn full authoritarian in the next 4 years and we get them back to our site, we can not sit this out right now. We need to be able to fight for our own interests, thats one of the few things Trump is right about (even though it is simply an excuse to drop us).
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Oh well
So we've apparently committed to buying 88 of these things. What direction out of the contract we have, and what are the consequences?
Defence analysts warn U.S. will ~~control key systems on F-35 fighter jets,~~ put~~ting~~ Canada at risk.
100%. The USA is absolutely not to be trusted. It is a friend to itself only.
Canada should cancel the order and invest in nukes and drones.
Sadly they've also proven they're not even friendly with themselves. They're a wildcard.
Even funnier - putin has all the backdoors into American weaponry from trump's first term in office. This made the F-35 obsolete just as they were figuring out how to keep it in the air - you see... it had this crashing problem for years...
If our European friends want to start a made in Europe defense plan, ordering a boatload of next generation fighter jets from them seems helpful...
Europe doesn't have a 5th gen fighter, and they're beholden enough to the US that they did nothing when we blew up their natural gas pipeline, forcing them to buy our natural gas at exorbitant prices, during winter and are trying to fund our war even after we've stopped. America's other vassals aren't going to help you stop America.
China exports the J-35, Russia exports the Su-57. Making Lockheed stock crater when even Canada abandons them would light a fire under more congress member's asses than anything else you can do.
Then again, it's not like GD, LM, and Boeing would ever let their politicians fuck up the bag.
We've already seen that Boeing is willing and able to cause accidental falls from balconies.
Yeah we feel that issue as well. Hindsight being what it is we should have bought the Rafaele
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this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2025
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