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Mutual aid spam is becoming a problem on the Fediverse. (atomicpoet.org)

submitted 1 day ago by atomicpoet@atomicpoet.org to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

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Mutual aid spam is becoming a problem on the Fediverse.

And to be sure, I'm not against mutual aid. What I am against is spam.

This person has not verified who she is -- or even if the profile picture is hers. Additional research on her name states she is a scammer with a record of grifting. I am therefore skeptical that any donations will help anyone in need.

Folks, please be cautious with mutual aid requests. Yes, people sometimes need help. But people also lie.

@fediverse@lemmy.world

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[-] rarbg@lemmy.zip 11 points 14 hours ago

Lol, comments in this thread forgot the 'mutual' part of 'mutual aid' and miss the point of this post (scams in mutual aid groups)

If you think mutual aid is a one-way street (/ don't benefit from it), is not for you, block and move on

[-] NastyNative@mander.xyz 22 points 19 hours ago

Its tough cause we want to help people in need but also dont want to be scammed. Theres gotta be a better way to do this!

[-] prole 22 points 18 hours ago

Seems like a great way to poison the concept of "mutual aid" before most people (such as OP) have even heard of it.

[-] sircac@lemmy.world 6 points 15 hours ago

There are needs and needs, I refuse to help a money begger unless is a close friend which I can control how is the best I can do for him, money being the last resource. Instead I always demand for social programs and services sustained by taxes to support those in real need (survival needs) unconditionally.

I would sleep much better if part of my tax contribution (together that of anybody in function of their resources) goes to grant the minimum for a "dignity survival" to any human being regardless of their returned contribution, with programs for reinsertion and mental support so they have the best chances to reach eventually a "dignity life".

And, if still they cannot but just "survive" for the rest of their lives, I still want to fund it and give them the security to do it with dignity until the very end.

[-] Furbag@lemmy.world 13 points 18 hours ago

"Mutual aid"? Is that what scammers are calling it now? What exactly is "mutual" about this interaction?

I don't think there's anything wrong with creating a community where people who are struggling financially can ask for help or plug their GoFundMe or whatever, but allowing these guys to essentially cold call individuals with DMs/Mentions is unacceptable.

[-] clot27@lemm.ee 7 points 17 hours ago

Yeah, the other day I saw a lot of posts like "I am from palestine, my home is destroyed please donate to help"... Spam is probably the significant problem on fedi

[-] vsis@feddit.cl 17 points 21 hours ago

I just mute all of them.

It may be my "3rd world syndrome" but to me, someone with internet access and a social media account who post regularly, is not in poverty. More likely a spambot.

My local beggar, in contrast, is a sincere person who tells me that he just want some cheap boxed wine or something to smoke. Refuses food or any kind of help. Cash only.

[-] tree_frog@lemm.ee 21 points 19 hours ago

When I was homeless, I had a cell phone. It's pretty hard to find work without one. And I don't know if it's still the case, but at that time if you are on any sort of government assistance you could get a phone paid for.

As it is really difficult to get out of poverty without one.

That sad, I don't hand out money on lemmy. There are folks in my community I know need help too.

[-] vsis@feddit.cl 3 points 17 hours ago

I mean, I know phones can be cheap or donated. And I also know that homeless people may have possessions that some consider "expensive". It's not that uncommon.

But constant internet connection needs monthly payments that, in my very personal and particular mindset, are not really compatible with "I'm a beggar. I need help".

Having knowledge of the Fediverse it's too niche for me, and the stories like "I can't pay groceries!" almost every week are unlikely in a place where most of folks are tech workers. My spam-meter says that probably some people out there found the #mutualaid hashtag and are making some fake profiles and fake stories.

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 4 points 15 hours ago

The plans can be super cheap compared to food and housing. A pretty poor person can still have consistent Internet now.

It's not the affordability that makes these things almost certainly a scam, but they pretty much are almost certainly a scam anyway.

[-] tree_frog@lemm.ee 6 points 17 hours ago

Again, the phone and the service, at least, when I was homeless in 2019, was covered along with other social services such as SNAP and Medicaid.

And again, I completely agree about not handing money out online. Just disagreeing about homeless folks having accessibility to a phone or the internet. And Public libraries or anywhere with wifi (if you have a phone) are other options.

[-] cheers_queers@lemm.ee 5 points 17 hours ago

you can find plans for $15/mo. it's not unreasonable for homeless people today to have a cell phone. even homies in prison have tiktoks.

[-] Toribor@corndog.social 16 points 19 hours ago

Not trying to change your mind on giving money to internet grifters but having a cell phone is pretty much a basic tool of survival these days even if you're destitute. Phones more than a couple years old are basically e-waste and cost nothing or are donated/trashed all the time. Even a WiFi only phone can be the best tool someone has to find shelter, food and get important weather updates.

[-] TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee 5 points 19 hours ago

Even if it's a recent phone, new flagship phones cost less than a month's rent in many places. It's not like phones are unattainable for homeless people.

[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 23 hours ago

Is it weird that I've never heard this term "mutual aid" before this thread but apparently everyone here knows all about it?

Anyway. There's just no way I'd give real money to someone asking for it like this because for every real person there must be a dozen scammers at least. It honestly seems crazy to me that this could work and people could send money.

If people are giving money away like this then they're part of the problem IMO. You're encouraging scammers, and perpetuating the practice, diverting money away from the people who actually need it.

[-] nomugisan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 20 hours ago

Mutual aid is not giving random internet assholes money because they begged for it. I'm not saying they should be banned from doing so, but calling it mutual aid is 100% a scam. Mutual aid is given freely, within a pre-established network.

Hosting a friend on your couch for a week cause they're in between apartments is mutual aid. Feeding your friends without expecting anything in return is mutual aid. Enabling e-begging is not mutual aid.

[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 12 hours ago

I guess in this case it's OP that labeled it as mutual aid rather than the requester.

[-] PyroNeurosis 15 points 21 hours ago

It isn't really that odd, considering you've only been here a couple of weeks. Mutual Aid is a foundational idea in most if not all anarchist projects and theory.

There may be many scammers, yes, but the goal remains the same - get help to those who need it from those in a position to give it.

As for being part of the problem, I must disagree. Scammers aren't leeching just this, they'd be present in any system purporting to help others (in gov't systems this is called fraud), the goal of these grassroots aid projects is to help those who fall through the cracks of more formalized systems and decentralize some aid in case the church/NGO/gov't can't or won't help (see the Hurricane Helene/Katrina responses when FEMA is overwhelmed).

Means-testing recipients is kinda a dick move anyway: those who have demonstrable need will have a harder time getting aid and time/money that should be spent helping are now spent with verification.

[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 21 hours ago

Hah.

I've probably been kicking around the fediverse longer than you, it's just this particular account that's only a few weeks old.

Anyhow, feel free to continue giving money to people asking for it on lemmy i guess.

[-] PyroNeurosis 4 points 21 hours ago

Fair 'nuff. I hadn't really considered an alt account.

[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 12 hours ago

It's not really an "alt" account, I just don't think of user accounts as an extension of my identity, and change very regularly.

[-] eletes@sh.itjust.works 3 points 20 hours ago

I first heard it in 2019 or 2020 from the queer community but I have a feeling it has deeper roots

[-] murdock@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 17 hours ago

Originally a concept by late 19th century anarchist Peter Kropotkin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Aid:_A_Factor_of_Evolution

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 3 points 15 hours ago

POLICE! POLICE! PLEASE HELP!

I SAW A HOMELESS PERSON!!! THEY WERE ASKING FOR MONEY

PLEASE REMOVE THESE EYESORES

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago

This is why I turn off Google spam filtering. My attention is worth nothing so everyone who can message me should be able to.

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago

Imagine being so dead inside that automated emails and human beings occupy the same part of your mind

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

Imagine being so naive that you think that's a real person.

But if we're not being snarky for a moment... It's trivially easy to create a bot to do exactly what this person is doing. Spam others with begging for money and a bunch of sob stories.

[-] bruhsoulz@lemmy.ml 7 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Personally only seen one asking for help and it was just a fella in my instance (super small) saying hey if u live in ___ my friend needs a place to crash at, retoot if possible (sounds super legit)

[-] mike@thecanadian.social 59 points 1 day ago

@atomicpoet @fediverse I'm glad someone brought this up. I basically assume all mutual aid posts are fraudulent unless strictly verifiable.

[-] LiamTheBox@lemmy.ml 1 points 14 hours ago

Donate those that provide something meaningful.

[-] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 170 points 1 day ago

Yep.

I feel the fediverse should lean towards “overly aggressive” when combatting spam, before it takes root, even with all the negatives that brings.

[-] farcaster@lemmy.world 87 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I agree. E-mail is the original federated service. And 50 years later e-mail spam remains a big problem. I hope Fedi projects can get spam mitigations on-par with email before spammers start getting serious about this place.

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[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 72 points 1 day ago

Yeah, mutual aid works on the local level or in insular communities like long-term discord groups with a tight group of regular members. With community mutual aid, I'm generally in favor of just taking people at their word. If they say they need help, give them help. No need to interrogate them like the food stamp office will. You prevent people from abusing the system by simply not granting endless requests from the same person. Or if someone needs severe aid, at that point you can start actually verifying their story, helping them access government benefits, helping them find employment, etc.

But that kind of open approach works for in-person aid. It doesn't work for anonymous online aid, where someone can use bots to spin up hundreds of convincing profiles each begging for money.

I just don't think mutual aid works well in an online context. The only online context it works in is among communities like small discord groups where people know each other for years. But on a lemmy or mastadon-type service? Mutual aid is impractical. Any people asking for aid should be directed to local groups that can help them in person.

[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago

I see a lot of teenagers falling for the “I’m a Gazan and need help getting out.” accounts too.

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[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 18 hours ago

At the beginning of the pan, someone was selling nudes to cover expenses. I think I sent twenty bucks because I could and she was cute and whatever. But then the person started messaging me about trying to get more money (for her and her sister) and it just felt like a scam and I became very cynical about it.

Btw, I slept funny last night and I have a neck cramp. Please send money. /s

[-] m_f@discuss.online 119 points 1 day ago

I don't think mutual aid can work well like that on the internet. Works great in person, works OK for GoFundMe-type stuff like "I had something happen to me that will take a lot of money to fix". Too easy to scam and grift for small stuff like this though, where for all you know they're just a very clever dog on the internet.

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 70 points 1 day ago

Charity is not the same as mutual aid anyways, even though I have also seen "mutual aid" requests on the Fediverse that were clearly asking for charity.

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[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 93 points 1 day ago

That's not mutual aid, that's scam spam. Report it.

[-] JustTesting@lemmy.hogru.ch 11 points 1 day ago

One problem with reporting private messages on Lermy is, as an admin i don't see who sent the message. I only see who reported it. And i don't have any actlon available, other than marking the report as handled.

with reported posts, i can ban the poster. With reported messages i'd have to ask the reporter who it was, trust their answer, search for the account manually and then i could ban. Not really efficient or fast if there ever was a spam wave.

of course sparmers could then just register a new account on a open instance and i might need to defederates which would lead to a fractured landscape of spammy open instances and likely inactive private instances.

there's also not even rudimantary spam filtering in lemmy.

The main saving grace is that Lemmy is too small to attract a ton of spam yet.

maybe some of the above is just due my pick of clients (jerboa and the web interface), and there's better tools? If so, i'd love to hear. But as things stand right now, there's a lot to be desired

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[-] WeLoveCastingSpellz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago

i had helped 2 people through Mastodon who seemed to genuinely need it on Mastodon a few months ago. I think it is nice to know that I can help people who need and they might help in my time of need.It is functional.