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[-] pjwestin@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If the independent calculations are correct, DOGE has cut $8 billion in government spending. 20% of that, divided amongst 350 million Americans, would be $4.57. If DOGE's claims are correct (and they're not), they cut $55 billion, which would be $31.43. Even if DOGE met it's goal of $2 trillion, that would be $1,142.86, which would be a significant one time payment for a lot of Americans, but wouldn't offset the loss of Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, a functioning Post Office, etc.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

And the other 80% to himself and his friends.

[-] Netrunner@programming.dev 9 points 1 day ago

This is called a bribe. He doesn't want to give any money out but he realizes that firing hundreds of thousands off people and robbing the government clean isn't exactly a slam dunk policy, so instead he's offering you as 2,500$ check to watch this happen.

Sick shit, really.

[-] FleetingTit@feddit.org 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The initial claim of Musk was that Doge saves $2 trillion... That would be ~$1.2k per citizen.

But honestly I'd be surprised if that figure isn't closer to $100 billion "saved", which would net each american a <$60 cheque. And all of that money goes towards paying higher egg prices.

Edit: changed the numbers to reflect Trump's claim.

[-] manxu@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

If only! That's <$300 total "savings," but the proposal is to return only 20% of it, so something <$60

[-] FleetingTit@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago

Damn, you're right!

[-] son_named_bort@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago

Anybody who believes that he would actually do this is someone who would fall for the wallet inspector.

[-] Obelix@feddit.org 108 points 2 days ago

Which is kind of crazy, if you think about it: The federal budget is coming from taxes. So the deal is that Trump is destroying valuable services of federal institutions and only 20% of the "savings" are getting passed on? While normal people will have to pay for stuff like the weather forecast?

[-] novibe@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Why do people think the federal budget comes from taxes?

The government prints money, pays for its budget, and THEN it taxes. It can’t wait for tax dollars to pay for the budget. Taxing is to make the dollar necessary and force its flow back to the government.

They mostly “burn” all your tax dollars…

Like the gvmt is not a company. It doesn’t have “obligations” and “revenue”. It fucking PRINTS the money. If any company could print money, they would stop giving a fuck about revenue instantly.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 45 points 2 days ago

...and other ridiculous things libertarians say.

[-] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 days ago

They're describing modern monetary theory, which is very much the opposite of a libertarian position. MMT is a strong argument for more government spending., not less.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

Modern monetary theory says that the government can just solve problems by printing more money? Maybe it's ridiculous too in that case, since there are multiple examples of that being a terrible idea.

[-] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

There are a lot of excellent examples of governments solving problems by printing money. Most notably, basically every case of hyperinflation ever has been solved by printing money. Noted economist Mark Blyth goes into this extensively in Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea.

What MMT posits is not that governments can freely print money with no consequences, but rather that we're looking at the question if printing versus borrowing versus taxation backwards.

The basic theory of inflation is that too much money chasing the same quantity of goods and services pushes up the prices of those goods and services in an effect rather like a bidding war.

What MMT points out is that from a government finance perspective, this implies that the chief concern is the amount of money in circulation. If money is removed from circulation, via taxation, that becomes a control on inflation. This allows a radical rethinking of government spending, since your chief concern is no longer the balance of the budget, it is only the balance of the economy.

This also gives you new tools with which to combat inflation. Right now, in contemporary liberal economics, the only control we have for inflation is interest rates, which disproportionately harm the least affluent. But by considering taxation as an inflation control we can shift the greatest burden of combating inflation onto the wealthiest instead.

Cory Doctorow gets into a really good and approachable explanation of this in one of his more recent articles, when pondering the question of whether it is beneficial or even possible to eliminate the national debt:

There is only one source of US dollars: the US Treasury (you can try and make your own dollars, but they’ll put you in prison for a long-ass time if they catch you.).

If dollars can only originate with the US government, then it follows that:

a) The US government doesn’t need our taxes to get US dollars (for the same reason Apple doesn’t need us to redeem our iTunes cards to get more iTunes gift codes);

b) All the dollars in circulation start with spending by the US government (taxes can’t be paid until dollars are first spent by their issuer, the US government); and

c) That spending must happen before anyone has been taxed, because the way dollars enter circulation is through spending.

You’ve probably heard people say, “Government spending isn’t like household spending.” That is obviously true: households are currency users while governments are currency issuers.

But the implications of this are very interesting.

First, the total dollars in circulation are:

a) All the dollars the government has ever spent into existence funding programs, transferring to the states, and paying its own employees, minus

b) All the dollars that the government has taxed away from us, and subsequently annihilated.

(Because governments spend money into existence and tax money out of existence.)

The net of dollars the government spends in a given year minus the dollars the government taxes out of existence that year is called “the national deficit.” The total of all those national deficits is called “the national debt.” All the dollars in circulation today are the result of this national debt. If the US government didn’t have a debt, there would be no dollars in circulation.

The only way to eliminate the national debt is to tax every dollar in circulation out of existence. Because the national debt is “all the dollars the government has ever spent,” minus “all the dollars the government has ever taxed.” In accounting terms, “The US deficit is the public’s credit.”

https://doctorow.medium.com/retiring-the-us-debt-would-retire-the-us-dollar-30f366e0bc40

I'm citing Doctorow here rather than academic sources because he's very good at explaining this stuff in comprehensible ways. For a more extensive breakdown The Deficit Myth by Stephanie Kelton is regarded as an excellent resource. Kelton, BTW, was formerly Chief Economist on The US Budgetary Committee; she absolutely knows her stuff when it comes to government level finance.

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[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 9 points 2 days ago

Before currency was even invented, taxes were levied in the form of precious metals, livestock, crop harvests, and other resources. The government can't print a chicken.

In the US, the first issuance of currency happened centuries ago. The government's spending comes from tax revenue (and issuing bonds and other stuff).

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[-] karashta@piefed.social 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I'm not sure why you're getting down voted for stating a fact: money has to be created through direct spending or back stopping the creation of money by private banks via the reserve system before it can be taxed away.

You can't tax back something that doesn't exist yet.

Just because it's not "our tax dollars" doesn't mean is isn't OUR public money.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago

They're being downvoted for suggesting that the government can create value just by printing more money. That actually causes inflation.

[-] DancingBear@midwest.social 2 points 1 day ago

I think you are wrong here dude

[-] Obelix@feddit.org 12 points 2 days ago

They are getting downvoted, because they are obviously wrong. Of course the government is "creating" the money. But it can't just print money and spend it. Countless governments tried it and it always led to hyperinflation - and therefore the budget of course has to come from taxes

[-] novibe@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago

How is it wrong if it’s factually what happens now? People have a “common sense” understanding of how the government works, and THAT is wrong.

Ever since fiat became the norm, all governments all over the world that print their own money and have debts denominated in their own currency simply print money to spend, for their budget. That is a FACT.

Only countries that have the majority of their debt denominated in another currency (the dollar mainly) that face inflation when printing money.

The US and Europe printed trillions during covid, and that barely caused a blip in inflation. Inflation only came after supply chains shock and the war.

Like do some basic research, if I’m so obviously wrong it will be very easy to see..:

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 18 points 2 days ago

Another 20% would go towards paying the federal debt. Ok, but that still leaves out 60%.

[-] glitch1985@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

What do you suggest they do with the other 50%?

[-] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 1 day ago

10% should probably go into a slush fund for the emergencies this is going to cause

What do we do with the remaining 25%?

[-] Noite_Etion@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Spend money on taxes to maintain important departments.

The government guts important departments and programs.

Gives just 20% of your taxes back.

Profit?

[-] teamevil@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Fuck you....the asshole doing this could give every American one million and STILL be worth 150 billion. Fuck your saving,I want the govt for the people by the people.

[-] DancingBear@midwest.social 10 points 1 day ago

If he gave everyone a million that would be like 400 million million… he’s not quite that rich

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[-] Kolanaki@pawb.social 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

20% of 0 is still 0, Donny-boy.

[-] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

Wouldn't that cause inflation? Something you were campaigning to reduce?

[-] Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 40 points 2 days ago

Where’s the other 80% going? It’s our tax dollars.

[-] Naich@lemmings.world 16 points 2 days ago

Into the pockets of the billionaires.

[-] sirico@feddit.uk 14 points 2 days ago

Not any more.. Now it's tax Rubbles, Riyal,and Crypto.

[-] BaldProphet@piefed.social 40 points 2 days ago

DOGE would have to actually save money for this to work.

[-] match@pawb.social 4 points 1 day ago

probably to one particular American citizen

[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

And a massive 100% of the "negative savings" (ie damages).

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 11 points 2 days ago

What's your price? Do. Not. Cave.

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[-] Bwaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

And he and Elon keep the rest?

[-] Nunar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

I would love to see that. It's based on lies and we could see how much. Really how much.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 17 points 2 days ago

I look forward to three extra dollars in my pocket per year. I'll buy an egg.

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[-] ctkatz@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

in other words, it's a stimulus check, a thing that he can put his name on to prevent (and completely fail in doing so) the economic recession that would be caused by his stupid policies making the price of everything go up.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

Specifically, the American citizens who are part of the Trump administration.

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this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2025
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