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Like, why is it so widespread, what causes it, what solutions are available, etc. I don't really know how to ask this question so I hope I'm making sense

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[-] felixwhynot@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

One thing that helps loneliness is communities, especially those that meet IRL. I believe there has been a significant decline in club membership and social groups in the past decades. I think there are several factors behind this, including financial stress (and the resulting scarcity of free time).

One action that people can take is to join communities and participate in them! Even just online groups with similar interests if not IRL groups can help to make friends and feel connected. HTH

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Part of capitalism is a need for high consumer culture. I grew up in a Latin American culture, and there are American sub cultures that also work similarly, there's no nuclear family. Of course your relationship with your parents and siblings are very strong and important, but you have no problem living with grandma, or having your extended family live all very close together, my family were all in the same apartment complex in an immigrant neighborhood. I grew up with my cousins, like every day, if we didn't want to play outside we'd go to different houses to see what everyone was watching on TV, we shuffle around with the different game consoles at different houses, food was entirely communal. After I got married to a typical American partner and started raising our kids together I was very shocked to find out that some food in the house is apparently owned by someone. And eating that food is a serious offense. Anyway, people used to live very close if not in a large family home with extended families. Why was this bad for capitalism? One large house owner by an entire family of 12-22 people securely, in which no one needs to buy their own home. We're a few cars and carpooling is a simple task, where food is distributed to the hungry without a lot of steps between grocer and table, I was wearing clothes my uncle wore when I was an adult. When everyone dresses in a similar manner and suits and work close lasted generations, a pair of taken care of shoes or boots that just get repaired every few decades, are you starting to see the problem? That NOT good for capitalism. When the concept of the nuclear family took hold there was a huge boom in home conduction, hardware stores, department stores, companies made fortunes off baby boomers, all this individualized products, razors, deodorant, soap, every stage in life requires a new variety of soap, 10 kinds of cereal to pick from, new shoes every 6mo.

Humans are Apes. Every other ape on the planet lives in large troops that mutually aid eachother and who is boss, and who is contending to take over, who has first pick of food and women, it's based on what? Being hella aggro? Being bigger, stronger, what? Usually it comes down to who has the best social skills, who ever bonds with the most members of the troop, because when a fight ensures, it's not about who is smart, cunning, or strong, it's about how many apes jump in on your side. We are DEEPLY social animals. The nuclear family isolated men the most. Toxic masculinity harms men on a HUGE scale. Quietly, emotionless, provide a secure home, two or more cars, and income to spare to the family you alone protect. It's pretty lonely. Many men don't even have friendships, one of the worst aspects of toxic masculinity is that it's a sign of weakness to be kind, caring, and nurturing. You know. Those aspect of social life that make every other species of ape successful. So where do men locked out of this already broken system go? They look for groups that will accept them, invite them out, bond with them socially. And who's funding all these far right groups that do this with millions of dollars? Russia. Far right billionaires and millionaires who don't want these men talking about WHY they are locked out of the system. If you look around you can also notice a lot of small service business aren't run by white people. You see Hispanic, Asian, east Indian people, who ''are all packed into that house like sardines'' with a staff of related people doing the work. Consumer culture is a dead end. The Nuclear family is a dead end.

Eventually we will break down and then who survives. The armed and dangerous? Or a farmer, rancher, producer of products, doer of services, with strong social ties and distributes food, product, service, with simple bartering making sure everyone's still alive.

[-] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think that many of the approaches that tried to explain it are mostly dangerous.

Like blaming it on gender norms, and toxic masculinity, the most common answer. Because plenty of men who do not comply to gender norms or toxic masculinity (or masculinity at all) still feel alone. And their experience get invalidated by this explanation.

I think a more neutral approach is needed to explain it. Instead of trying to take some explanation that fits your political views and then try to push it as a solution to the problem, the problem should be investigated by itself, and once an explanation is reached accept it even if it does not fit your political mindset.

One hint is that most people that feel alone lack a romatic relationship, the most common approach seems to be that "nah romatic relationships are not needed and we will not even consider them part of the problem". When it's pretty obviously that the lack of this kind of relationships is fundamental in male loneliness.

[-] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Because plenty of men who do not comply to gender norms or toxic masculinity (or masculinity at all) still feel alone. And their experience get invalidated by this explanation.

It sounds like you completely miss the application of the explanation itself. The phrase toxic masculinity describes the social norms and expectations that men act a certain way. Society imposes gender norms on people such that those who don't comply are at the highest risk of being shunned or ostracized, and having trouble making social connections. And the social pressure may make men act in ways they wouldn't otherwise, so that they grow up poorly equipped to be introspective and understand their own wants/desires/emotions/drives/motivations.

Toxic masculinity tells men what they're not allowed to be, and tells men what they must be. Both sides of that same coin are toxic to men, and by extension those that the men interact with.

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[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

What's the deal with poorly explained questions?

Why don't they provide more context for their perspective? Do they think people will magically know what they mean without them explaining it?

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[-] deadcatbounce@reddthat.com 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

When you have a significant change in the population dynamic, it takes a significant time for the population not (really) effecting this change to adjust.

From my perspective as an old bloke, Women now treat relationships as transactional or have standards that are impossible (for that individual) to achieve; men are reacting in the only way available. There are obviously a number of reasons for the changing in dynamic and I'm not making that statement to judge or analyse; mass change requires motivation. The motivation presented itself.

To my mind society is in the same incredible flux as when the female pill became a real and accessible/allowable thing fifty years ago. Gillick competence case law didn't happen in the UK until 1985; that's awfully late to protect young women.

The risks to a man of a long-term relationship significantly outweigh the potential rewards. Being aware of the overwhelming risks and deciding not to engage doesn't stop one being lonely.

"I used to think the worst thing in life was to end up all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." - Robin Williams

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[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 9 points 2 months ago

What exactly are you talking about? Men who feel lonely sometimes? Men without friends? Men who are not having sex?

[-] abbadon420@lemm.ee 8 points 2 months ago

Men without hats?

[-] Bacano@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Sex researchers Baumeister and Tice wrote about sexual economics.

"A heterosexual community can be analyzed as a marketplace in which men seek to acquire sex from women by offering other resources in exchange."

From an evolutionary standpoint it makes sense that women wouldn't want a partner that can't provide security for the couple when the woman would be vulnerable if pregnant/nursing.

Young men in particular have fewer resources of value to offer than at any time in most people's lives. To that point, it's not like young women are dating any better, so even if they are willing to be the sole provider, most are unable to do so.

With the traditional partnership which historically provided companionship out of the question, men are left yearning for female companionship.

Another point the researchers make, is that men will always yearn, while women have a generally easier time abstaining until conditions are right.

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 8 points 2 months ago

What makes you think this is a gendered thing?

[-] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Women are better at being friends to each other. I’ve basically given up on trying to make friends with other men because they are terrible friends. At best, they make no effort at all at friendship and are completely passive, requiring you to call and make all the plans. At worst, they are hostile in various ways when you try to befriend them. It is very rare to meet another dude that makes effort to be a friend.

Edit: it’s soooo funny to see this comment being downvoted because it will only perpetuate your loneliness. You deserve it.

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[-] mke_geek@lemm.ee 7 points 2 months ago

If people are lonely it's because they cause it themselves.

I'm in an activity group and it's mostly the women of the group who are organizing the events. The men sign up to attend. The women are the ones who make plans and the men just go along.

Why don't the men take initiative?

Even playing a board game, the guys just sit there playing a game. The women are the ones who introduce themselves, ask other people their names, what they do for a living, engage in conversation. This is all stuff men could be doing themselves but choose not to.

Some men isolate themselves using video games and didn't join any social groups then complain that they are lonely. It's like complaining you're hungry when the food is right in front of you but you just won't eat it -- you're expecting someone else to literally feed you.

[-] Mrfiddles@feddit.nl 11 points 2 months ago

A lot of men were never taught to do this. We raise young girls to be incredibly social, but boys are not socialized to nearly the same extent. You can see this in Autism diagnoses. Girls are diagnosed as a much lower rate and the ones that do receive the diagnosis tend to be really severe cases. The leading theory as to why is that society places so many social expectations on girls that the more mild cases quickly learn to mask and pass themselves off as neurotypical.

Hell, I'm 35 and I just started a group chat with some of my bros in order to help with motivation to get things done (it's basically a stand up meeting but for our personal lives/goals). NONE of them even know each other, they were just doing this to help me out because I'm burned out. 2 weeks in and they had all thanked me privately for giving them a social outlet and improving their mood. None of us usually text people unless we need to, and now we'll routinely get roped into conversations because someone shares an interesting update.

Meanwhile my wife is juggling 3 different group chats in addition to half a dozen friends she keeps in touch with 1-1.

There might be some biological mechanism too, but I think a lot of it boils down to boys have "productive labor" modelled for them as ideal behavior while girls are taught how to be considerate friends.

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[-] N0body@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 months ago

Lack of socializing. We’ve lost the third place in modern society. It’s work and home and nothing else. Lots of people work from home now, which is great, but only if you have a third place. You have to meet people in the real world and find a way to connect with them.

People laugh, but churches are a good way to do that. Check one out, sit in the back, and watch the people who show up- the demographics, make sure the congregation is diverse, etc. If you see a same-sex couple walk in and sit down like they’ve done it a hundred times, you don’t have to worry about all the hate bullshit.

Church is a great way to meet people in a place where everyone feels safe and accepted. They are extremely welcoming to newcomers. There are always activities and groups to join. Churches have been the third place for literally centuries.

Even if you have irreconcilable philosophical differences, check out a Unitarian church.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Church is not a great place for third places- unless you happen to be like all the others at that particular church.

No church will actually accept you unless you’re the same as them. The “sameness” doesn’t have to be about race or orientation or accepting that.

They might be totally willing to let you in the front door, but unless you conform, that won’t be for long.

Libraries are a much, much better 3rd place, and they don’t try to ram theology down your throat to use it.

[-] j4k3@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

I've never talked to anyone in a library. Have you? Generally conversations are taboo in my experience. Maybe things have changed since I was able to go to one and relax.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Yes.

All the time.

I’m there at least once a week and I usually chat with the librarians for recommendations and to catch up with a few staff I’ve gotten to know.

They also have around 30 different clubs going on weekly, one of which I occasionally lead (teaching people the basics of 3d printing and design,) and that’s not including the dozens of book clubs they got, or the movie clubs.

And then there’s the larger events like “art days” or visiting cultural groups. The drag story hour, the princess story hour; the story hour for adults.

The major alternatives to prom and homecoming dances.

The tabletop gaming sessions.

Bingo night. Gin, hearts, spades and bridge night.

Most libraries will have something for everyone, even the poorly funded Hicksville ones where the churches likes to sell itself as an alternative 3rd space.

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[-] Mammothmothman@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 months ago

There is a lot of comments faulting society. But the individuals need to take personal accountability. Choosing to live online is what I see as the crux of this issue. This comes from personal experience of living online and being loney and miserable untill i started getting out and meeting people. This lonelyness "epedemic" is people not managing their screen time.

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[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I know Jordan Peterson has a lot of followers. He says it's the women's fault men are lonely. He says men are their victim, pictures women as evil while men should be on top. This creates an even bigger isolation and creates sex offenders.

In Japan and South Korea there are many men who are isolated because of videogames and it's online culture. They have a relationship with a Nintendo character of AI on their phone (no joke).

Because a lot of lonely men are on the internet, it's not a correct representation of the real world. Doesn't change the fact there are many non the less.

Just because there are many different cultures accessable for anyone through the internet, it's easier to isolate yourself in such a culture. Whether it's on reddit, 4chan, through games, forums or other social media groups. But it keeps you off the streets, away from real socializing, learning to behave, how to talk to a girl, find a hobby which isn't on your computer, meet real friends.

[-] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

I know Jordan Peterson has a lot of followers. He says it's the women's fault men are lonely

Peterson has a habit of saying things that might technically be true in isolation but will then disagree with you when you try and make a conclusion from it. In this case he has also said it's men's fault for not making women a good enough 'offer'.

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this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2025
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