853
Borders shift, bro. (lemmy.world)
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[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 145 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It's weird how borders can move around on their own without any action from anyone.

Edit: On a more serious note, where exactly does this type of bias come from? I don't think of the AP as a highly ideological organization but is there some top-down pressure to frame things in a certain way? Does it come from the outside? Or is it just the prejudices of individual journalists and editors at play?

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 46 points 3 months ago

Israel has several lobbying organizations that watch news organizations and lodge complaints with them if coverage isn't favorable. Check out the ex CNN employee who recently said they literally couldn't publish without Isreal's permission.

[-] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

Insane. Marginally related... I've learned the last year or so since I took up a moderator position for a computer game.. Some complaints you just gotta disregard no matter how many people whine. Being offended is a you problem. not ours. I've had this happen equally amongst people who were percieved as right wing, or lefties.

evidentley the news doesn't know enough to just laugh at the whining and disregard the complaint.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The problem is they're a profit seeking organization. And groups like CAMERA (Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America) can buy billboards telling people you're a bad product and influence investors to stay away and invest in other news organizations.

[-] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 45 points 3 months ago

Manufacturing Consent

The essential ingredients of our propaganda model, or set of news "filters," fall under the following headings: (I) the size, concentrated ownership, owner wealth, and profit orientation of the dominant mass-media firms; (~) advertising as the primary income source of the mass media; (3) the reliance of the media on information provided by government, business, and "experts" funded and approved by these primary sources and agents of power; (4) "flak" as a means of disciplining the media; and (5) "anticommunism" as a national religion and control mechanism. These elements interact with and reinforce one another. The raw material of news must pass through successive filters, leaving only the cleansed residue fit to print. They fix the premises of discourse and interpretation, and the definition of what is newsworthy in the first place, and they explain the basis and operations of what amount to propaganda campaigns.

https://chomsky.info/consent01/

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 11 points 3 months ago

Thanks, I've been meaning to read this book for a long time. Maybe the time has finally come.

[-] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago

Consequences of Capitalism: Manufacturing Discontent and Resistance by Noam Chomsky and Marv Waterstone is also a worthwhile read if you get around to it

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

Try Inventing Reality by Michael Parenti too.

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[-] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 42 points 3 months ago

Israel doesn't actively do anything, they are to be referred to in the passive voice only. Russia is the one who invades, shoots and kills people. Bullets fly into the heads of Palestinians and Israeli borders move, no responsibility here.

[-] Sop 28 points 3 months ago

Sometimes because the paper is financed/owned by some party that profits off of the colonial & genocidal project, sometimes because the paper gets scoops from 3 letter agencies who make such requests in return for scoops, sometimes it’s racism that the writer might not even aware of, but most often it’s a combination of those.

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I guess I was wondering if there's specific evidence of the way it works in this particular case. The AP is a non-profit, so it doesn't have the same structure as a privately or publicly owned firm. But of course, there's still the possibility of leadership imposing views onto its workers, though I think that's a little more challenging with a nonprofit. But I am curious about them because they are the source of a large amount of news published by other sources, so if they are biased then that bias infects the rest of the media whether they want it or not.

[-] Sop 7 points 3 months ago

I don’t know about AP specifically, but it’s a good question.

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[-] jonne@infosec.pub 13 points 3 months ago

There's an inherent bias towards treating government statements as fact (whether that's police, government officials or military spokesmen). When the other side is a 'terrorist organisation' or a 'community leader', they're automatically treated as biased and suspicious. It's a pattern you see with Israel, police shootings, etc.

Obviously when the country in question isn't aligned with the West (Russia, China, etc), the qualifiers and doubt comes creeping back in, and journalists will include examples of past lies to underscore the point, which you'll never see in a story about the NYPD or Matthew Miller.

[-] pingveno@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

It is a cherry picked headline. Here is another from the AP that gives a different story: "Middle East latest: Israel plans an extended occupation of Syrian buffer zone"

[-] AgentDalePoopster@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

Even that is far too mild. The Syrian "buffer zone" is there to "protect" the Golan Heights, which was also originally pitched as a "buffer zone". Wonder what the long term plans are for this new "buffer zone", and which zone will buffer it next?

Why was the cherry there in the first place that it got picked? Stupid headline or article, even if its only one, needs to be called out on

[-] AgentDalePoopster@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Oh it's not stupid, it's an intentional effort to manufacture consent.

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[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Formal annexation by Russia happened significantly later than occupation of the land. Israel is at the 'occupation of the land' stage.

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 5 points 3 months ago

OK but come on, are you really implying that the framing is the same here? And we all knew what Russia planned back then and we know what Israel plans today. Do you think when it’s “official” we’ll see the headline on the left for Israel? I don’t think so.

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[-] Sop 75 points 3 months ago

Disgusting, these media titans should be held accountable for manufacturing consent on genocide.

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

Using what laws though? I’m not aware of any actual method that can hold them accountable.

[-] Sop 27 points 3 months ago

Laws aren’t static, but the law also isn’t the only way to justice. In this case it clearly isn’t.

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Anonymous needs to do some hacktivism...

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 26 points 3 months ago

Gotta love that passive language making autocracy sound mild.

[-] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 24 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)
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[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Edit: Well, as horrifying as it is to see how shallow folks understanding of history is, no one is paying me to be online and screaming against tiktok or whatever isn't that much fun. G'night y'all!

Unpopular opinion but do folks honestly not understand how those borders shifted? Mostly because a bunch of countries tried to murder the Jews and yeah, Israel took part of their land in the counter offensives.

If Ukraine kept Kursk, I can't imagine we'd really be complaining?

Basically, if you launch a surprise war I think you forfeit the right to be surprised or angry when your land gets taken.

Edit: Jesus, are the downvoters confused like the response below and think this is talking about Oct 7 as opposed to say, the repeated wars that actually changed the borders? Does TikTok not cover modern history or what?

[-] yesman@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Mostly because a bunch of countries tried to murder the Jews and yeah, Israel took part of their land in the counter offensives.

Either your ignoring Israeli history older than the babies shot in Gaza, in which case you should finish your studies, or you think this applies throughout Israeli history, in which case you should start your studies.

[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

What on Earth?

When do you think the Six Day or Yom Kippur wars happened?

[-] popcap200@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 months ago

Yeah, you don't deserve the downvotes (IMO). The article is referencing border changes since Israel's inception. It's a lot more complicated than Gaza and Oct. 7th.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-borders-history-syria-gaza-war-golan-5fdf8fdbe2ec2cee7b9cf7f78fbb1c8c

[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

I appreciate that! Honestly, it's a little worrying how little historical context folks seem to have.

Don't know why I feel compelled to point it out other than being a glutton for punishment.

Anyway, thanks!

[-] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 months ago

Lemmy is anti Israel at best and absurdly anti semitic at worst. Palestine is schrodinger's country. It exists at the 47 borders, despite the inhabitants at the time rejecting those borders and losing several wars about it.

[-] finder585@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

lol at the people downvoting you. While other people in this thread argue that Israel should not exist. With the heavy implication certain people living in that territory should also stop existing.

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[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 6 points 3 months ago

How the fuck can a population that you're killing and stealing the land from start a SURPRISE war?

[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

I take it you have 0 knowledge of the Six Day or Yom Kippur wars? Which is how the borders in the headlines moved. I mean, heck, a lot of recent maps of Israel show in which war the territory was taken.

I kinda guessed folks were ignorant of the history but come on, this is pretty basic stuff.

[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The existence of Israel as a settler-colonial entity nullifies any argument that any resistance in the area can be a "surprise".

It shouldn't exist. It is all stolen land that they are continuing to steal.

[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

I mean, Israel was taken from the Jews way back when so by your logic, aren't they just taking back their land and thus, apparently according to you, allowed to do whatever?

[-] finder585@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It shouldn’t exist. It is all stolen land that they are continuing to steal.

You're right, we should give the whole area back to the Romans.

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[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 points 3 months ago

Mostly because a bunch of countries tried to murder the Jews and yeah, Israel took part of their land in the counter offensives

There's that then-Israeli PM's statement about how Israel knew Egypt and Syria weren't going to start a war and yet attacked anyway, you can look it up.

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[-] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

This is if you view the Arab states as the aggressor in 1967 even though Israel was the one who initiated the conflict. If you see Israel as the aggressor in 1967 and the yom kipper war as a counter offensive to take back land that Israel had stolen then it becomes less justifiable.

It's more like Russia keeping the Donbas after it launched a "preemptive strike" because it was afraid Ukraine was gonna team up with nato to attack them. Then 5 years after trump forces Ukraine to make peace they launch an offensive into the donbas to take there land back, only to get repelled again.

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[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

To be fair, Israel has also lost territory that they previously stole in large amounts on the Lebanon front.

Most of the land they've gained was in Palestine, but the USA and UK probably didn't recognize the Palestinian statehood anyways.

The pedantic difference here is like the difference between increasing and strictly increasing.

All news should use neutal language.

If journalist want to express their personal opinions, that's what editorials are for.

A simple rewrite of the article title on the left to: "Russia annexes formerly Ukrainian territory. Ukraine and NATO declares the act to be unlawful". Like this is much better, less biased title. Don't make the claim yourself, tell who is saying it.

[-] Sop 14 points 3 months ago

Media uses that tactic often, where they always platform the statements by Israel (that are very frequently lies that aren’t challenged at all even though it would be very easy to) but much less frequently from Palestinian sources. This makes it really easy for Israel to spread its narrative while Palestinians remain unheard and misunderstood.

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[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago

What goes through editor's heads on this shit?

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

That they dont want to be fired by their genocide sympathizing bosses.

[-] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Indeed, WTF. The Native Americans would view the US westward expansion like AP's headline about the shitstain Putin.

[-] LANIK2000@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

For fucks sake, this is how tankies are born. Fucking stop it!

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this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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