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Keep it simple (lemmy.world)
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[-] DaddleDew@lemmy.world 79 points 1 week ago

Does this ridiculous number of antennas even do anything or is it just marketing wank?

[-] themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works 117 points 1 week ago

Technically, it does provide better connection speeds by enabling the router to avoid channel hopping, so it can talk to multiple devices (or the same devices if it has multiple antennae) at the same time. This is part of the recent wifi6 and wifi7 standards so more and more devices will start to gain speeds using this technique

Realistically computers have at best 2 antennae and this is largely marketing wank.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 40 points 1 week ago

Though if you have multiple devices all trying to connect to wifi, like even a phone for example, then a computer having two antenna that it can actually use 100% of the time still sounds valuable to me.

[-] MrPoopyButthole@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 week ago

Lookup "phased array" and "beam forming"

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[-] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 73 points 1 week ago

Lord Sauron would like a word.

[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 39 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It does. Wifi uses MIMO (Multi-in, multi-out) to run multiple concurrent data streams over the same channel width, which overcomes individual channel bandwidth limitations (there's only so much radio frequency space to go around). Each stream having its own antenna, and having larger antennas, gives stronger signal/noise ratios, less retransmitted packets, and overall better connections.

A lot of those high end "gaming" routers are often oversold though.... MIMO improves throughput if you have an Internet link it can saturate; realistically even a midrange 2x2 802.11AC router will provide more wifi bandwidth than your internet does. And for gaming, they do nothing to improve latency no matter how many streams you run, as wifi's inherent delay (5-15ms) is pretty much a fixed quantity due to its radio broadcast time-sharing nature. The meme is correct. A $6 ethernet cable beats any and all wifi routers and client adapters, and always will.

[-] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 week ago

To be more precise it's not each stream having it's own antenna, you combine the signals from all antennas and then "spatially filter" it into separate streams, but the number of concurrent streams is limited by the minimum of the number of antennas at both ends of the connection, if your device has only one antenna and your access point has eight you can only have one data stream.

[-] lud@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago

What fast of a WAN connection are you talking about?

I can't see how a midrange 802.11AC AP could suffice for a decent WAN connection. IMO you need at least 802.11ax

[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago

2x2 AC on 5ghz has an 867mbps max PHY throughput, which after a 50% derate for signal quality and overhead is still a very comfortable 400mbps.... typical cable internet is around 100 to 500mbps with a lot of places offering "1gbps" that it never actually reaches, so it's certainly sufficient for 90% of people.

If you have a very heavy multi user (6+ devices always on) household you may find some benefit from an AX 2x2 or 3x3 router just because it can handle congestion better.

[-] MudMan@fedia.io 6 points 1 week ago

Six plus always-on devices is rookie numbers. I'm in the twenties, in a house with a handful of people.

And yes, the router I'm currently using is faster than all my wired devices over wifi, save for the two that pair some form of 2.5/10Gb ports. Also yes, my 1Gbps WAN hits about 900-ish on the downstream, with the ISP guaranteeing at least 800 as a legal requirement. I don't know if other regions allow ISPs to sell connections that run at 50% of the advertised speed, but... yeah, no, that's illegal here.

Honestly, full home coverage is the biggest issue I have. If this was a new house I would have wired it as a solution, but as it is, I only got the whole home fully connected with reliable speeds by spending a bunch of money in wireless networking gear.

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[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 2 points 1 week ago

It's not all about the WAN speed. Having fast LAN speeds is always worth it.

This will help hugely with stuff like PC game streaming (from your PC to a tablet or TV for example), screen sharing to TV, file transfers over LAN, media servers, etc.

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[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 week ago

I'm a network professional with a specialty in wireless.

Yeah, beam forming and mimo are the main reasons for antenna diversity. There's also more radio chains in those units typically, and more radio chains can provide better speeds if you have client devices that can take advantage of the extra radio chains (both sides need to have the same, increased number of radio chains to see an increase).

The antennas are fairly small/thin pieces of wire that are not very long, so the antennas don't need to look like that, but the quantity is useful.

[-] lengau@midwest.social 3 points 1 week ago

As someone with a telecommunications background who's taken apart some cheap routers that look like that: the only caveat I'll add is that the antennas are only useful if they're actually connected to anything. From a decently trustworthy brand you're probably fine, but I've seen a few where only one or two of the antenna couplings were connected to anything internally.

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[-] Godnroc@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

I believe it's for beam forming which can be used to improve signal strength in a specific direction.

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[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 64 points 1 week ago

tell that to the $800 of copper running through my walls.

[-] Magister@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago

My PC, laptop, work laptop, are all wired using gigabit. But my laptop on wifi reach 1200Mbps so it's faster than cable!

[-] nickhammes@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago

Faster than gigabit, but not 2.5 gigabit. Your cables likely support the speed, just your ports and switching hardware are capped at gigabit.

It's not extremely expensive, but unless you move around a lot of big files, you're probably getting very diminished returns, even spending less than twice as much for 2.5x speeds.

[-] latesleeper@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

Impressive, I lose half my speed with the router around the corner.

[-] CheezyWeezle@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

If you have only one device on Wi-Fi, multiplexing turned off, or especially if you have MU-MIMO support, Wi-Fi can be faster than a single wired connection. It is still higher latency and subject to other drawbacks such as security and power consumption, but of course it offers advantages that can outweigh the disadvantages depending on use case and user needs.

That said, it's technically not faster than the cable, but rather faster at the data link or network layer. For example, CAT8 physically supports up to 40Gbps, but most consumer and even professional electronics only support up to 2.5Gbps. Only really enterprise level switches can push up to like 100Gbps onto copper, and even then that's using QSFP transceivers, not RJ-45 connections. Fiber cables regularly push 400Gbps.

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[-] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago

*Excluding running ethernet cables to every room through the attic, down the walls to wall jacks. Also the cost of the jacks, and the various switches needed for several rooms. And the contractor to do it all.

But hey for like $600 I have cat6a in basically every room so

[-] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 week ago

And the contractor to do it all.

Why wouldn’t you do it yourself?

[-] maniclucky@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Like, in an old house its a massive pain in the ass to run that, but still firmly in DIY territory.

[-] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

Disabled, so physically cannot do it, or I would.

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[-] Zess@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

And then you still need a wireless router to get Internet on your phone unless you use data at home like a crazy person.

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[-] SleafordMod@feddit.uk 28 points 1 week ago

Ethernet is obviously better but running ethernet around your home can be a pain in the arse

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 week ago

A pain in the arse you only need to do once, and you can hire someone to do it for you for basically the same cost as a couple of the high end wireless routers, so in like 5 years, you break even.

Also, how much have you spent on your computer (s), phone(s), tablet(s), and all your other internet connected devices, and you won't spend like $500 on something that can run all that stuff simultaneously? Pouring literally thousands of dollars on connected devices, but most won't pay more than they would for a toaster, to get them on the internet, then pay out the wahzoo for gigabit internet that your crummy d-link router can't handle, and you wonder why all your fancy gadgets run like shit.... It's a lot like buying a Ferrari to drive on dirt/gravel roads.

[-] Zetta@mander.xyz 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Preach! I just finished a long DIY remodel and running ethernet to everyroom was less than a $100 in cable and connectors. Obviously it was easier and cheaper for me because I already had a lot of the drywall down.

Either way such a good point you make, people will drop 1k on a phone no questions asked but a few hundred is too much to get the best home upgrade a tech enthusiast could ever ask for.

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago

I could preach all day about this.

I have a simple philosophy: wired when you can, wireless when you have to.

With that being said, doing a site survey for wifi and getting optimal access point locations, then placing Ethernet in ceiling there for said access points, ensures you have good coverage of your space, which then leads into another rant about network hardware and people spending thousands on everything except their router/access points even if they have the structure cables to support such a system....

Then people wonder why their wifi sucks.

I mean, spend a couple hundred one time to get Ethernet run, spend some time on an online ap placement tool and signal estimator for it, and then go buy infrastructure wireless for your home, and spend upwards of $1000 on networking hardware. You'll get more out of it and it will work for longer than your $1000+ smart phone, or many $1000s laptop that use it almost constantly.

Networking is critical and it should be seamless and blend into the background. You shouldn't need to mess with it constantly to get it to work. If that's normal for you, then something is very wrong.

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[-] b34k@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I think it’s a little more than $500 to get Ethernet ports installed all around your house. Especially if you need to run through fire breaks and insulation. Will have to wait till a remodel before I can get those installed.

That said, I didn’t skimp on my home networking, even though it’s all wireless. I’ve got 4 WiFi 6 APs on PoE with Cat 6 runs thru the attic. I can get 700 Mbs+ download speeds pretty much anywhere in and around the house.

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[-] workerONE@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago

But what if you're gaming downstairs and the router is upstairs and then you have to go upstairs for pizza rolls so you take your gaming laptop upstairs and you're eating right next to the router and so you're just plugged in and then what if you forgot to turn off the oven and your girlfriend is yelling at you "You're going to start a fire! Why can't you remember to turn off the oven? What's wrong with you?" and then you go back downstairs to finish gaming?

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[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Dude I just bought 4 refurbished Linksys MX4200 (tri-band) access points for $80 (total), put on OpenWRT, and built a mesh system. I'm incredibly happy with the result, especially for the price. And, I've got wireless bridges all through the house so I can keep some things off the forwarding channels and only in the back haul.

It's not wired, but it's close enough and doesn't require me drilling through all my walls running cable or carving out a space in the house for all of it to coalesce.

Granted, I'm in an area with not a lot of wireless interference...I work in enterprise networking and I've had a lot of issues with remote workers on wireless networks that weren't capable of handling the volume of data that the users were uploading. Sometimes just because there's too much interference...but a lot of the time it's because of misconfiguration (either out of ignorance or because the good features, like multicast-to-unicast, are missing), or printer drivers that spam the wireless with multicast whenever the printer is offline (which I've seen a surprising amount of times).

If you're on wireless...multicast is bad, mmmkay? Only "one" device can talk at a time on wireless (barring MIMO shenanigans), and when it's multicast traffic...it has to get sent at the lowest compatible rates. A lot of routers set this to 6Mbps or even 1Mbps by default. So your nice fancy "1200Mbps" wireless has to slow down a crawl every time your Roku wants to tell Alexa that it's there. Which is surprisingly often. Scale up for all the internet-of-crap stuff people have and it's a miracle their wireless works at all.

Oh and I've found people with extenders they don't know about. Ring Chime? Apparently it functions as an 802.11n (only) extender. Huge bottleneck right there. And then it can only be as good as the signal it gets from the next access point.

[-] theangryseal@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I’m a nice fellow who provides free internet to all of my neighbors.

It’s a pain sometimes.

I worry about the teenager upstairs, but all the others are old ladies and it doesn’t bother me a bit…until I want to do something serious.

I’m about to (tax time) invest in a router that allows me to control their bandwidth. It’s free, so if 20mbps don’t work for them they can pay for it.

I will open up the kid’s PS5 so he can game. His laptop is getting 10mbps though.

Old ladies rocking 4k to sleep is too much.

They don’t pay for internet so they get the good good on their services. I’m too sorry and antisocial to go deal with it.

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[-] Entropywins@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

Let's see that ethernet cable do orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing...

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[-] nonentity@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 week ago

Wireless data links should be the exclusive domain of temporary, nomadic and/or sacrificial applications.

If the channel is permanent, static, or critical; as much of the path as practicable should be provisioned with constrained energy transmission.

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[-] Im_old@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

I'm seriously thinking of getting a usbC-ethernet dongle for my mobile, for when I'm at my desk.

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[-] Sabata11792@ani.social 9 points 1 week ago

But that cable can't summon Kel'Tuzad unlike the router.

[-] IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Unless you need 6ft of cable or you just run wires on the floor it's more like $200 of plenium rated cable, and keystone jacks and the labor involved with the run.

My house with a half finished basement (easy access) took probably 16-20 hours running to 5 rooms.

[-] nimble 5 points 1 week ago

Yeah when i did my house i was quoted $100-200 a drop and that was years ago. I bought materials for 20 drops for about 1k (cables, keystones, plates, cable tester, ethernet cutter, puncher, drywall knife, flex drill bit, wall fishing tape, network switch, and a bunch of other stuff im probably forgetting). It took me 1 hour per drop on average. Some were easy, some were a pain in the ass. Now you can save on materials slightly by doing 1 drop per room whereas i did individual drops for each jack (because i wanted full bandwidth on each line), but either way it is going to end up more costly than an access point or mesh system unless you're just running one line within the same room.

Definitely worth it if you care about the speed or reliability of your connection but i think for most people these days it's probably overkill.

If you do go wiring everything then now you're mostly already set up to do some Power-over-Ethernet (PoE) devices for cameras, access points etc. And next thing you know you're an amateur home networker!

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[-] cmhe@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

I spend a lot more money on good Ethernet switches. But at least that works and is easier to manage than Wifi.

[-] nimble 7 points 1 week ago

6.99 is just one cost though. If you're needing ethernet actually done in walls then you're going to be paying a lot more than an access point.

[-] jaschen@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago

I got a used 10Gbe switch and a thunderbolt 10Gbe adapter for my computer and now I can transfer my videos and photos from my NAS like it's my internal hard drives.

It can also do 2.5Gbe which pretty much future proofs me.

[-] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Phased arrays are not a joke. You can get ridiculous dynamic range with those

[-] Dave@lemmy.nz 5 points 1 week ago

I have about 6 or 8 ethernet cables in use plus more in my spare cables box, and I don't remember ever paying for one. Where do they come from? I never seem to run out.

[-] jenny_ball@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

if that's the latest one that's a great deal. it's usually $800.

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I have a cat 5 cable running to a wireless access port that is connected to my wireless router. Online I show as having a physical connection, because the last connection to the PC is a plug.

The connection is also pretty solid compared to when I try to use wifi on the same PC to connect to the same wireless access point, which is just over 6 foot away with no obstructions (just checked), or the main router which is in another room.

Seems weird, but it works.

[-] lud@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago

Your PC probably has poor antennas and/or WiFi chipset. The pc might also be located in a worse place

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

The pc might also be located in a worse place

Like, mentally?

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 week ago

Just use something shielded and at least cat 5

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this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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