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[-] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 28 points 1 day ago

I don't understand why op thinks they are special for going through this workflow. Women are way less likely than men to ignore job requirements when applying for jobs and many many people have to be reminded that job requirements are fluffy. Are all these people "neurodivergent"? We seem to want to apply this term everywhere for some reason.

[-] CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

I think most people are like this but neurodivergent people have trouble coming to terms with breaking the rules. As in they see an incongruity between the stated rule and the way everyone behaves. What OP is talking about is textbook neurodivergence behavior though I’m sure other people experience this to some degree.

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago

As a neurodivergent, this. Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself. I literally cannot because I'd quickly ramble on and talk about seemingly unimportant things for like, three sentences, but only use commas, so that it looks/reads as a single sentence, then ultimately say what you said, but I would say it worse somehow.

I'm ADHD. AMA?

[-] stringere@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago

I used to do that with elipses until I was scathingly mocked on a BBS when I was a teenager. It takes me longer but it did make me better at writing for others to read on the internet.

[-] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 9 points 1 day ago

I don't think that op thinks they're special by going through the workflow. I think op thinks that the workflow lands differently on them because of their condition. I think op thinks that it's related to their condition because no one else seems to be complaining about this and so maybe neurotypicals aren't as bothered by this.

[-] NiHaDuncan@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Yeah, this is an oddly common sentiment amongst those that make neurodivergence their personality; which is funny because it’s more common to be neurodivergent than neurotypical. While it’s usually said that 20% of people are neurodivergent, it’s actually more than 50% when you include everything that constitutes neurodivergence and even account for significant overlap.

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think “neurotypical” by now means “I wanna say ‘normie I look down upon’, but I don't want to sound like an incel”

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago

Nope. I'm neurodivergent, I know a lot of neurodivergent people. We all kind of gravitated to eachother over time. Some are ADHD, like me, some are on the spectrum for autism, and there's a bunch more that I simply cannot list because the list is pretty long.

I can tell you that zero of the neurodivergent people I know use the term "neurotypical" to mean anything like what you suggest. In every context it's meant to exemplify the lack of mental struggle that some people have in their daily life in contrast to what most neurodivergent people experience.

Eg, anxiety and paralysis when contemplating or engaging in anything remotely social. For some neurodivergents, such activity evokes a very strong reaction. Some neurotypicals also experience something similar, usually less severe at least; but the experience is not unique to us.

The most common derogatory use of "neurotypical" that I've seen is regarding empathy, or the lack thereof, from people who have not experienced a major mental health event, and are so neurotypical that they cannot even fathom the struggles of people who are neurodivergent.

You all don't understand, then victim blame us and call us lazy, when our brain chemistry literally prevents us from making any useful progress on stuff. Then there's a whole swath of you that shames us for using meds to help correct the discomfort of being wired differently in a world that isn't designed to accommodate, or even sympathise with us.

Now we're being, more or less, accused of using "neurotypical" as a slur to hide that we're incels?

Seriously?

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[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

are y'all actually gatekeeping diversity?

[-] ChildeHarold@lemm.ee 11 points 1 day ago

I took a job as a medical assistant. I was not certified. It was during COVID, and the manager was woefully understaffed. I had zero experience or training. They still hired me, because in her words "we can teach you everything you need to know, and your resume demonstrated you were a good learner so that's all that matters." (I had taught myself Chinese and coding, and put that on the resume).

I worked my butt off, and after two years when I had to leave to go back to school they offered me a massive raise, more training to get me a promotion as an actual technician to start making 80k/year, and they even said when I finished grad school I could be taken on as a partner and own the business (it was a small clinic). They wanted to do anything to get me to stay.

All these companies these days care too much about certs. They don't know how to hire. They should look for resume's that demonstrate learning, initiative, responsibility, and commitment. Because at the end of the day: almost anyone can learn any job that isn't a PhD-level.

Like, having managers be required to have a college degree is moronic.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

A job I applied to a year ago made me do a general logic test. It's the only job that's ever made me do one. I think I spent like half the time on one question because I was so confused. I genuinely believe there was a typo. Anyways, it's the closest I've come to putting my foot down and asking for accomodations because holy shit.

So, I ace the part relevant to my job but failed that part bad. Get this: they say they want me to retake it before giving the results to the potential client. HUH? If the test is bullshit, why make me do it at all? AND GET THIS. I retake it. I've now wasted three hours of my 2023 holiday season on this. The client rejects me because I didn't have experience with some random technology. WTF??? I think I even asked before all this why don't they show my resume to the client before the test and they said because they like to give a full file. I was so angry. It's probably the most unprofessional email I've sent, but I literally sent one saying something like "Then why didn't you show them my resume before making me waste three hours???" Seriously. They didn't even talk to me. Which is fine, I'm not saying they should have to, but for the contracting company to make me waste so much time... And to make me retake it (proving the whole thing is BS). Wow.

Anyways, I'm employed now, thank goodness.

My boss's boss said everyone should be happy on Friday because it's bonus day. I'm my boss's only contracted employee. I think I don't get one. I'm very tempted to just send him an email like "was I supposed to see a bonus in my paycheck? Blah mentioned it." But I don't wanna seem passive aggressive.

[-] Hazzard@lemm.ee 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

It's not lying as much as it's advertising. If they're asking about your greatest weakness, tell them. Just don't neglect to mention how you mitigate that weakness too, and are improving. Don't let your answer end on "I'm a disorganized mess", end it on "so in the last year, I've started building and using checklists and it's been really effective".

In the same way, be up front if they ask about the criteria you don't meet. But consider your entire answer, again, you can say something like "I actually haven't worked in that language before, but I've done lots of work in Python and Java, so I'm confident I can pick it up quickly as needed". If they don't ask, then it probably wasn't really that important of a criteria to them, so you shouldn't waste your interview time talking about it either.

Don't volunteer all your worst traits, you only have an hour, so focus on describing your strengths as often as you can. Nobody expects to completely understand you as a person in one hour, they're specifically asking you to come in and advertise yourself. Instead, read between the lines in the listing (I.E. Things mentioned in the job description or title are likely more important than something in a single bullet point. Look for repetition, or how much they talk about each requirement.). Figure out what the "customer" wants that you're good at, and ensure you emphasize it, repeatedly. Define clear takeaways and make sure they know what you're offering, and will actually remember it too.

And practice your answers to many questions. Come up with your best anecdotes for "a time you resolved a conflict with a coworker" and all that nonsense in advance, so that you can confidently segue into those stories that best emphasize your takeaways when asked. Do some research on the company to come up with a good answer to questions like "why do you want to work here?". The answer doesn't have to be your top priority, which is obviously "a paycheque", but just append an unsaid "instead of somewhere else" and answer honestly, because people are good at detecting insincerity. You likely haven't applied to every company on earth, so tell them why you chose them.

Lastly, like an advertiser, don't be afraid to segue from other questions into your prepared answers. "Yeah, I've always loved X, that's why I wanted to work here actually, I'd heard a bit about how you were getting involved with X, but with this interesting twist, and thought that sounded like something I'd really enjoy working on". The interview questions are designed to get you talking about yourself, it's not a survey where the strict questions are all that matter, and you can simply joke about it if the question comes up later.

[-] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago

A lot of this is tied into rhetoric. Rhetoric is a skill. You don't need to lie. You need to tell the truth good.

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[-] bill_1992@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

The problem is the job market has basically priced in exaggerations on resumes. People exaggerate all the time and don't get punished for it.

If you don't exaggerate, you may even miss out on opportunities and hamper your career goals whatever they may be, because they already assume you exaggerate and already account for it when reading your resume. And if you don't exaggerate? Well, they're happy to pay you less than they would've.

Certainly at least in tech in the Bay Area, fake it till you make it is the norm. I've met plenty of people with amazing resumes and references just to see them not be as good as advertised.

[-] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 18 points 2 days ago

As an autistic person I relate to this so hard it isn't funny.

[-] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 17 points 1 day ago

As a non-autistic person, it's also incredibly annoying. Job hunting has always been a really stupid system with lots of really stupid rules of thumbs.

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 64 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Those HR people who make the listing don't understand most of it anyway.

[-] luciferofastora@lemmy.zip 19 points 2 days ago

"I'm looking fora Data Analyst"

"Gotcha, we put up an ad for Data Science"

"No, Data Analyst, that's diff-"

"Here, we already got some applicants"

"They'll be very disappointed to learn that I'm not interested in their AI skills"

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[-] Pechente@feddit.org 22 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It’s also ridiculous how often I see „Java“ instead of „JavaScript“ in job listings.

Edit: Not trying to judge Java here, this is purely about recruiters not knowing the difference, posting jobs for Java devs when they need JS devs

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[-] Shou@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago

Neurotypical people are more "morally flexible." Which sounds like hypocricy and corruption to me. Assume NT's have ultirior motives and it becomes a easier to read between the lines.

[-] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

That’s a rather uncharitable, and frankly conspiratorial, way of viewing things lol

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[-] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 2 days ago

I have a stable job that I like.

Sometimes I think I should go to interviews just to make recruiters feel insecure, "your business is not up to my expectations" "what do you mean you don't provide flexible remote working?" "Your paycheck is just too small for me, sorry".

I would get a laugh of of it and probably would help some fella by lowering this fuckers ego.

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[-] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 158 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

You don't lie, lying will get you into trouble. You just don't mention it if they don't ask. And if they don't ask it's probably not that important. Most job descriptions are like Christmas wishlists anyway, they will be happy if they get half of it.

[-] Redredme@lemmy.world 79 points 2 days ago

These days you're called different with a sexy word neurodivergent when you tell the truth.

Like this person I also find this strange. And like this person I also have problems during job interviews. I mean, I'm not bullshitting you and I expect you to do the same. But alas, it's often bullshit and lowballing all the way.

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[-] Please_Do_Not@lemm.ee 83 points 2 days ago

Why yes, I do thrive under pressure. It's why I use a weighted blanket.

[-] teodor_from_achewood@lemmy.world 94 points 2 days ago

Before I graduated I was encouraged to apply for a job that required a four year degree.

Don't worry about it - we know you, they said.

When I submitted my application online it was automatically rejected because the application program correctly flagged that I didn't meet the requirement of having a four year degree.

[-] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 70 points 2 days ago

This is when you call them directly and tell them that. They can override the automation.

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[-] kaffiene@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

As someone who has read a lot of cvs, i wish more people thought like this. We didn't list the requirements just for fun. Quit wasting people's time by applying for stuff when you don't match the requirements

[-] Breve@pawb.social 10 points 1 day ago

As someone who has applied to a lot of jobs, I wish more job posters thought like you. It would take me 1 minute to find you a job posting for an IT position where they ask for a minimum number of years using a technology that hasn't even existed for that many years.

I think this happens because some manager says "we want an expert in this technology" but then the job poster slaps some arbitrary number on that like "oh 5-10 years should be enough for an expert" with no awareness that it's a brand new technology.

[-] kaffiene@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

Yeah. That's being a fucking idiot and has nothing to do with my post

[-] Starbuncle@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago

It would take 15 seconds to look up " release date" and use that as a reference.

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Bro... Your asking HR. Curb your expectations.

[-] Breve@pawb.social 2 points 1 day ago

Yeah, don't ask me my opinion of HR. Biggest boot lickers in the entire universe, change my mind.

[-] Breve@pawb.social 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I mean to be fair, it's a struggle between terms like "expert" or "senior" being too ambiguous and a time interval of experience being a poor indicator of actual proficiency. The corporate world doesn't care though and ties the two together as a general rule because middle management isn't smart enough to tell the difference. Thus, it boils down to "we're hiring a senior level, it takes X years to reach that at our company, thus we expect someone to have that many years of experience at any other company doing a job similar to what we do". Some HR peon then words it like "you need X years of experience using [exact technologies we expect applicant to use]".

To tie this back to the OP: Most (?) people understand this is what is happening in basically all job postings where they list years of required experience to match their expected proficiency (i.e. I'm as good as someone who has been doing this for X years), but there are people who interpret this literally and think that if they have X-0.1 years of experience in that exact thing that they will be automatically rejected because it said X is required and they do not have X.

[-] Starbuncle@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

Thank you for your valuable insight.

[-] bill_1992@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Blame all the companies with ridiculously high requirements just to hire people who don't meet all of them. It's a common advice to apply even when you don't meet all the reqs, because it works out so often.

[-] kaffiene@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

Yeah fair, that's a shitty behaviour as well

[-] kshade@lemmy.world 34 points 2 days ago

That whole routine doesn't magically make sense to neurotypical people either.

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 51 points 2 days ago

Yes, and then don’t provide “real” answers at the interview, make up stuff they want to hear, be friendly and create small talk with a complete stranger, act like you actually GAF about the company when all you want to do is just get a job and start working, screw all this people-interaction stuff.

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[-] notsure@fedia.io 79 points 2 days ago

a friend once got me a job interview with his company. he listened into the interview, and i could hear him audibly gasp when the interviewer asked, "why do you want to work for us?". I replied plainly, "To make a living so that I may pursue my real goals." I didn't get the job...

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[-] Trashcan@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

A lot og questions can be answered diplomatically and show that you are able to handle yourself:

Q: do you like the colour red?

A1: I hate red

A2: I don't like red

A3: Not my favourite colour

A4: I prefer blue

In this entirely made up and pointless exercise you hate red and are asked if you like it. Real world applications converging on zero.

On a scale of lie to truth, where are you comfortable with representing your thoughts of red in an interview?

And remember, only Sith deals in absolutes🙃

*Edited layout

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this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2024
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