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submitted 3 weeks ago by misk@sopuli.xyz to c/technology@lemmy.world

On Monday, X filed an objection in The Onion’s bid to buy InfoWars out of bankruptcy. In the objection, Elon Musk’s lawyers argued that X has “superior ownership” of all accounts on X, that it objects to the inclusion of InfoWars and related Twitter accounts in the bankruptcy auction, and that the court should therefore prevent the transfer of them to The Onion. 

The legal basis that X asserts in the filing is not terribly interesting. But what is interesting is that X has decided to involve itself at all, and it highlights that you do not own your followers or your account or anything at all on corporate social media, and it also highlights the fact that Elon Musk’s X is primarily a political project he is using to boost, or stifle, specific viewpoints and help his friends. In the filing, X’s lawyers essentially say—like many other software companies, and, increasingly, device manufacturers as well—that the company’s terms of service grant X’s users a “license” to use the platform but that, ultimately, X owns all accounts on the social network and can do anything that it wants with them.

“Few bankruptcy courts have addressed the issue of ownership of social media accounts, and those courts that have were focused on whether an individual or the individual’s employer owned an account used for business purposes—not whether the social media company had a superior right of ownership over either the individual or the corporation,” Musk’s lawyers write. 

The case Musk’s lawyers are referencing here is Vital Pharm’s bankruptcy case, in which a supplement company filed for bankruptcy and the court decided that the Twitter and Instagram accounts @BangEnergyCEO, which were primarily used by its CEO Jack Owoc to promote the brand, were owned by the company, not Owoc. The court determined that the accounts were therefore part of the bankruptcy and could not be kept by Owoc.

Except in exceedingly rare circumstances like the Vital Pharm case, the transfer of social media accounts in bankruptcy from one company to another has been routine. When VICE was sold out of bankruptcy, its new owners, Fortress Investment Group, got all of VICE’s social media accounts and YouTube pages. X, Google, Meta, etc did not object to this transfer because this sort of thing happens constantly and is not controversial. (It should be noted that social media companies regularly do try to prevent the sale of social media accounts on the black market. But they do not usually attempt to block the sale of them as part of the sale of companies or in bankruptcy.)

But in this InfoWars case, X has decided to inject itself into the bankruptcy proceedings. Jones has signaled that Musk has done this in order to help him, and his tweet about it has gone incredibly viral. On a stream of his show after the filing, Jones called this “a major breaking Monday evening news alert that deals with the First Amendment and the people's fight to reclaim our country from the clutches of the globalists.”

"Elon Musk X Corp entered the case with a lawsuit within it to defend the right of X to not have private handles of people like Alex Jones stripped away. It violates the 13th Amendment against slavery, there are many issues. Today they filed a major brief in the case,” Jones said. “Elon Musk’s X comes to Alex Jones’ defense against democrat attempts to steal Jones’ X identity.”

Musk famously unbanned Jones, then appeared on the same Twitter Spaces broadcast with him. Musk has also tweeted occasionally that he believes The Onion is not funny. Jones, meanwhile, has been ranting and raving about some sort of conspiracy that he believes led a judge via the Deep State to sell InfoWars to The Onion at auction. 

X calls itself “the sole owner” of X accounts, and states that it “does not consent” to the sale of the InfoWars accounts, as doing so would “undermine X Corp.’s rightful ownership of the property it licenses to Free Speech Systems [InfoWars], Jones, or any other account holder on the X platform.” Again, X accounts are transferred in bankruptcy all the time with no drama and with no objection from X.

“Looming over the framework [in the Vital Pharm case] was the undeniable reality that social media companies, like X Corp., are the only parties that have truly exclusive control over users’ accounts,” the lawyers write. “X CORP. OWNS THE X ACCOUNTS.”

That a corporate social media company says it owns the social media accounts on its service is probably not surprising. Meta, Twitter, Google, LinkedIn, and ByteDance have run up astronomical valuations by more or getting people to fill their platforms with content for free, and have created and destroyed countless businesses, business models, and industries with their constantly-shifting algorithms and monetization strategies. But to see this fact outlined in such stark terms in a court document makes clear that, for human beings to seize any sort of control over their online lives, we must move toward decentralized, portable forms of social media and must move back toward creating and owning our own platforms and websites.

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[-] Jarix@lemmy.world 282 points 3 weeks ago

So if x has superior ownership, then they should be subject to every illegal thing ever posted on X.

Including CSAM posts and other illegal things.

So whos the pedo now Elon?

[-] 7toed@midwest.social 62 points 3 weeks ago

So whos the pedo now Elon?

I won't ever get over him larping as a child and tweeting as if he'd want himself as a father.

[-] Mirshe@lemmy.world 43 points 3 weeks ago

And all because none of his actual children give two shits about Apartheid Daddy.

[-] anomnom@sh.itjust.works 48 points 3 weeks ago

Especially if the claim ownership of the Infowars account. They should be added to the debtors for the Sandy Hook families.

[-] unphazed@lemmy.world 35 points 3 weeks ago

Same as the Companies are People bs. They're people when it comes to bribing politicians, but they have money and are not responsible for evils committed by their companies.

[-] Jarix@lemmy.world 15 points 3 weeks ago

And are essentially immortal entities

[-] kureta@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 weeks ago
  • Corporations are people ❌
  • Corporations are Gods ✅
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[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 25 points 3 weeks ago

The judge should say, fine if you want legal precedent that you are the superior owner I'll give it to you, case closed. Now you will have to respond for every singles illegal thing posted on there since you are the owner.

[-] Maven@lemmy.zip 19 points 3 weeks ago

Hilariously, trump wants to remove the law that says you can't hold platforms legally at fault for their users. Once that gets repealed, this is a genuine argument. (As far as I know... I'm not a lawyer but that's my interpretation)

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[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 187 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

What the actual fuck?! Just that first paragraph!

On Monday, X filed an objection in The Onion’s bid to buy InfoWars out of bankruptcy. In the objection, Elon Musk’s lawyers argued that X has “superior ownership” of all accounts on X, that it objects to the inclusion of InfoWars and related Twitter accounts in the bankruptcy auction, and that the court should therefore prevent the transfer of them to The Onion.

So they argue that accounts are non transferable, even by court order!!
This is complete bullshit, and should not be taken seriously at all as a legal argument, obviously X has the right to close the accounts afterwards, if they are operated against the terms X has decided. But ONLY if that. It should not be allowed to do it arbitrarily.

[-] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org 94 points 3 weeks ago

Not non-transferrable, as that would prevent Elon from claiming @america or the transfer of @POTUS.

[-] hddsx@lemmy.ca 59 points 3 weeks ago

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

[-] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 28 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

What the onion could do in such case that elon does not want to give the accounts as part of the deal is to send a letter threatening legal action if they do not take down the accounts for infringing on their InfoWars trademark

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[-] Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 21 points 3 weeks ago

You are naive, if you really think that the law still applies to people in Trump's near proximity.

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[-] Ledivin@lemmy.world 146 points 3 weeks ago

If X owns all of the accounts, then it sounds like they should be liable for all of the speech from those accounts. I hope people jump on this.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 49 points 3 weeks ago

It's a stupid thing to do anyway. Now every other corporation that uses Xitter as a social marketing tool just got reminded that their account is essentially valueless as it can be removed from them at his whim.

[-] ME5SENGER_24@lemmy.world 43 points 2 weeks ago

You nailed it on the head—if X owns all X accounts, then X should absolutely be held liable and named as codefendants in all past and future litigation where content posted on X is used in the suit. By asserting ownership over the accounts, X is effectively taking on a level of responsibility for the platform's use and misuse, akin to how a publisher is held liable for the content it distributes.

This raises serious implications for legal accountability. If X claims ownership, they are asserting control, and with control comes liability. They can't just cherry-pick the benefits of owning the accounts (like monetization, data, and influence) without accepting the risks, including being dragged into lawsuits where harmful, defamatory, or illegal content originates from their platform.

It would also set a precedent for greater accountability in tech. Platforms often hide behind Section 230 protections to dodge responsibility, but if they step forward and say, 'We own the content or accounts,' then they lose the shield of neutrality and should face the consequences accordingly. It’s a slippery slope that X might regret going down if this theory gains traction in courtrooms.

[-] cupcakezealot 31 points 2 weeks ago

elon just admitted in court that he owns multiple accounts dedicated to sharing csam on the internet.

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[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 106 points 3 weeks ago

I can't wait for the Texas and Connecticut families to file a motion to make X liable for the $1.5b too, since they own the Infowars account it's their responsibility.

[-] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 45 points 3 weeks ago

Can't have a safe harbor and ownership.

[-] spiritsong@lemmy.world 36 points 3 weeks ago

This I don't trust the US legal system but it'll be very funny if the Sandy Hook parents win.

[-] Rakonat@lemmy.world 38 points 3 weeks ago

Please let this happen. It'd be fucking hilarious to watch the rat try to squirm out of xitter losing him even more money.

[-] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 103 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

if they own the accounts, that means they arent protected by section 230 and is liable for every illegal thing that is posted?

[-] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 102 points 3 weeks ago

It violates the 13th Amendment against slavery

Uh?

[-] Atelopus-zeteki@fedia.io 48 points 3 weeks ago

Just hollering bullshit, because in the past if he did that louder and longer it worked for jones.

[-] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 84 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Okay... so lets say Musk wins, and the infowars handle isn't transferred.

The Onion should then file an impersonation complaint with X and have the handle handed to them. I would assume in the auction the onion purchased the rights to the trademark InfoWars.

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[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 55 points 3 weeks ago

in that case, it sounds to me like the Sandy Hook families should be able to sue X for another 1.6 billion for allowing its accounts to be used to defame and threaten the families.

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[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 50 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Ok. The accounts can be withheld, suspended or whatever.

The Onion is therefore entitled to due compensation from X Corp., as this was considered to be included in the bid. X can have that NFT for just 47 billion dollars, what a deal! /s

[-] r00ty@kbin.life 19 points 3 weeks ago

No. If valve cancel your steam account, you lose your games and they owe you a big fat zero.

Same goes for all accounts with assets attached.

Sad to say, but in this case it is musk's platform and his rules.

If he wants to go home and take his ball too. Tough luck.

Doesn't seem right, but it is legal and already happened on multiple platforms multiple times.

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[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 46 points 3 weeks ago

Bitch I run my own mastodon instance. I definitely own my social media accounts

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[-] maevyn 42 points 3 weeks ago

This really conflicts with the idea that, as platforms, websites are not legally liable for the content their user’s produce. At least at a high level, it feels like those two should be mutually exclusive. If X owns all of the accounts on its site, it should be legally liable for all of them. If X is not legally liable, it should imply some amount of individual ownership.

Like, yes federation is better and we should be pushing for it, but also, we should be trying to push for better regulation of incumbent social media platforms too if we can. Seems unlikely but we can try.

[-] zephorah@lemm.ee 38 points 3 weeks ago

Xitter is basically state media at this point. MAGA media, if you prefer, as run by the preferences of President Musk.

[-] penquin@lemm.ee 33 points 3 weeks ago

A country where money gives you power over even the justice system, is just a joke of country and will eventually collapse on itself.

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago

No it won't. It will prop itself up on labor exploited from the working class.

It's the middle class that will collapse. Eventually everybody will be poor. Nobody but the rich will own land. It'll all be one big exploitation of it's people. Just as russia has done for 1000 years before us.

That's the goal, didn't you know? An entire nation of labor slaves without power, and an entire class of elite without empathy.

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[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 31 points 2 weeks ago

you do not own your followers or your account or anything at all on corporate social media

X, and by extention all other social media platforms, would intervene in any and all brands to demand permission for mergers/sales if social media accounts are part of the merger. This is an insane level of megalomania, that goes well beyond "ownership of content posted" online.

The fact that Musk is intervening to protect the most hateful pro-Republican disinformation, while having bought the presidency, and then expecting Supreme court to side with him could be understood as counter to democratic ideals, but its just another step in that direction.

The most likely outcome of a pro-Musk ruling is the onion makes a new lower bid for infowars without the twitter accounts. Maybe Musk bids higher for infowars. There is an anti-trust case for this scenario, but it only applies in a presumed principled democracy.

[-] cupcakezealot 16 points 2 weeks ago

if twitter owns all the accounts, what does that mean for official state run accounts that are archived and saved for historical purposes?

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[-] theluddite@lemmy.ml 29 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I don't disagree but I'd say that there's a more important lesson here: The concept of ownership is mediated by a legal system that gives the wealthy a special pass. Rich people can pay lawyers to make up concepts like "superior ownership" 'til the cows come home, and any subsequent precedent costs $600/hr to even access. None of us should feel secure under this system about our online lives or our fucking houses, even if we "own" them.

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[-] asteriskeverything@lemmy.world 27 points 3 weeks ago

I'm still reading but ffs- I click ONE x.con source and my in app browser makes me hit back 5 times just to get to lemmy again nothing else pulls that shit but maybe daily news level

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 27 points 3 weeks ago

If he wanted to save a right wing shitbird's stuff so badly, why didn't he buy it?

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[-] 96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl 25 points 3 weeks ago

How will Musk manage all the conflicts of interest, between all of his companies and assets and his role in government. His business interests are so large and diverse that it literally can't be done, can it? Already got the sense that the US is going down the path of oligarchic kleptocracy. But how shameless and out in the open will it be?

[-] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 16 points 3 weeks ago

Simple: he doesn't.

In his mind the government needs to be run like a business, and in business only profit matters, therefore there is no conflict of interest. Also it is becoming clear that laws are completely irrelevant now and no matter the accusation, they will put YOU in jail because they got the power.

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[-] AlternateRoute@lemmy.ca 22 points 3 weeks ago

Who owns your outlook.com account? Who owns your gmail.com account? I will give you a guess it is the company that owns the domain to the right of the @.

[-] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 20 points 3 weeks ago

I'm not sure why everyone is shocked. This has been the case since the beginning of the public Internet. It's their servers, their infrastructure, and everyone should have been completely aware that we are giving them content for free. I was never under any other impression, even back when I was using Usenet and IRC. That's why I don't post anything on social media I truly care about retaining ownership over.

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[-] cupcakezealot 20 points 3 weeks ago
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[-] JWBananas@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago

Fine, let them keep it. Just sue them for trademark infringement if they ever use it.

[-] osugi_sakae@midwest.social 18 points 3 weeks ago

Am I correct in seeing this as the company is claiming that courts of law cannot require them to transfer control of an account from one user to a different user? This despite the fact that doing so has been fairly standard practice for years now?

Personally, I think the lawyers for The Site Previously Known As Twitter have a very weak argument. However, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, so there's also that.

[-] MimicJar@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago

Classic not a lawyer but the terms of service say,

We give you a personal, worldwide, royalty-free, non-assignable and non-exclusive license to use the software provided to you as part of the Services. This license cannot be assigned, gifted, sold, shared or transferred in any other manner to any other individual or entity without X’s express written consent.

(Emphasis mine)

Twitter accounts are commonly shared by many individuals and I guarantee they do so without written consent. Does that invalidate/bring into question the whole clause or just the sharing part?

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[-] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

Wow, Alex Jones looks like he aged 15 years in the past few months.

Good.

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this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2024
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