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[-] ITGuyLevi@programming.dev 63 points 4 days ago

Is it invisible to accessibility options as well? Like if I need a computer to tell me what the assignment is, will it tell me to do the thing that will make you think I cheated?

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

I think here the challenge would be you can't really follow the instruction, so you'd ask the professor what is the deal, because you can't find any relevant works from that author.

Meanwhile, ChatGPT will just forge ahead and produce a report and manufacture a random citation:

Report on Traffic Lights: Insights from Frankie Hawkes

......

References

    Hawkes, Frankie. (Year). Title of Work on Traffic Management.

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[-] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 38 points 4 days ago

Disability accomodation requests are sent to the professor at the beginning of each semester so he would know which students use accessibility tools

[-] DillyDaily@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

Yes and no, applying for accommodations is as fun and easy as pulling out your own teeth with a rubber chicken.

It took months to get the paperwork organised and the conversations started around accommodations I needed for my disability, I realised halfway through I had to simplify what I was asking for and just deal with some less than accessible issues because the process of applying for disability accommodations was not accessible and I was getting rejected for simple requests like "can I reserve a seat in the front row because I can't get up the stairs, and I can't get there early because I need to take the service elevator to get to the lecture hall, so I'm always waiting on the security guard"

My teachers knew I had a physical disability and had mobility accommodations, some of them knew that the condition I had also caused a degree of sensory disability, but I had nothing formal on the paperwork about my hearing and vision loss because I was able to self manage with my existing tools.

I didn't need my teachers to do anything differently so I didn't see the point in delaying my education and putting myself through the bureaucratic stress of applying for visual accommodations when I didn't need them to be provided to me from the university itself.

Obviously if I'd gotten a result of "you cheated" I'd immediately get that paperwork in to prove I didn't cheat, my voice over reader just gave me the ChatGPT instructions and I didn't realise it wasn't part of the assignment.... But that could take 3-4 months to finalise the accommodation process once I become aware that there is a genuine need to have that paperwork in place.

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[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 4 days ago

Ok but will those students also be deceived?

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[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 83 points 4 days ago

I wish more teachers and academics would do this, because I"m seeing too many cases of "That one student I pegged as not so bright because my class is in the morning and they're a night person, has just turned in competent work. They've gotta be using ChatGPT, time to report them for plagurism. So glad that we expell more cheaters than ever!" and similar stories.

Even heard of a guy who proved he wasn't cheating, but was still reported anyway simply because the teacher didn't want to look "foolish" for making the accusation in the first place.

[-] FutileRecipe@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

I uploaded one of my earlier papers that I wrote myself, before AI was really a thing, to a GPT detector site. The entire intro paragraph came back as 100% AI written.

[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

At this point I'm convinced these detectors are looking for the usage of big words and high word counts, instead of actually looking for things like incorrect syntax, non-sequitur statements, suspiciously rapid topic changes, forgetting earlier parts of the paper to only reference things that happen in the previous sentence....

Too many of these "See, I knew you were cheating! This proves it!" Professors are pointing to "flowery language", when that's kind of the number one way to reach a word count requirement.

When it shouldn't be that hard, I used to use ChatGPT to help edit stories I write (Fiction writer as a hobby), but then when I realized it kept pointing me to grammar mistakes that just didn't exist, ones that it failed to elaborate on when pressed for details.

I then asked what exactly my story was about.

I was then given a massive essay that reeked of "I didn't actually read this, but I'm going to string together random out of context terminology from your book like I'm a News Reporter from the 90's pretending to know what this new anime fad is." Some real "Cowboy Bepop at his computer" shit

The main point of conflict of the story wasn't even mentioned. Just some nonsense about the cast "Learning about and exploring the Spirit World!" (The story was not about the afterlife at all, it was about a tribe that generations ago was cursed to only birth male children and how they worked with missionaries voluntarily due to requiring women from outside the tribe to "offer their services" in order to avoid extinction... It was a consensual thing for the record... This wasn't mentioned in ChatGPT's write up at all)

That's when the illusion broke and I realized I wasn't having MegaMan.EXE jack into my system to fight the baddies and save my story! I merely had an idiot who didn't speak english as a writing partner, and I've never

I wish I hadn't let that put me off writing more...

I was building to a bigger conflict where the tribe breaks the curse and gets their women back, they believe wives will just manifest from the ether... Instead the Fertility Goddess that cursed them was just going to reveal that their women were being born into male bodies, and just turn all who would have been born female to be given male bodies instead. So when the curse was broken half the tribe turned female creating a different kind of shock.

There was this set up that the main character was a warrior for the tribe who had a chauvinistic overly macho jackass for a rival... and the payoff was going to be that the lead character was going to be one of those "Women cursed with masculinity", so when the curse is broken he becomes a woman and gets both courted by and bullied by the rival over it, who eventually learns that your close frenemy suddenly having a vagina is not a license to bang her, no matter what "TG Transformation Story Cliches" say about the matter...

Lot of

"Dahl'mrk, I swear if you replace my hut's hunting idol with one of those fertility statuettes while I'm sleeping one more time, I'm going to shove both up your bumhole."

Energy...

God I should really get back to it, I had only finished chapter one.... and the mass gender-unbending doesn't happen till chapter 3.

[-] Navarian@lemm.ee 70 points 4 days ago

For those that didn't see the rest of this tweet, Frankie Hawkes is in fact a dog. A pretty cute dog, for what it's worth.

[-] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 145 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I like to royally fuck with chatGPT. Here's my latest, to see exactly where it draws the line lol:

https://chatgpt.com/share/671d5d80-6034-8005-86bc-a4b50c74a34b

TL;DR: your internet connection isn't as fast as you think

[-] jawa21@lemmy.sdf.org 116 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the hiway.

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[-] FundMECFSResearch 164 points 5 days ago
[-] BanjoShepard@lemmy.world 109 points 4 days ago

I think most students are copying/pasting instructions to GPT, not uploading documents.

[-] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 159 points 4 days ago

Right, but the whitespace between instructions wasn't whitespace at all but white text on white background instructions to poison the copy-paste.

Also the people who are using chatGPT to write the whole paper are probably not double-checking the pasted prompt. Some will, sure, but this isnt supposed to find all of them its supposed to catch some with a basically-0% false positive rate.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 70 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Yeah knocking out 99% of cheaters honestly is a pretty good strategy.

And for students, if you're reading through the prompt that carefully to see if it was poisoned, why not just put that same effort into actually doing the assignment?

[-] Windex007@lemmy.world 93 points 4 days ago

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, so forgive me, but I expect carefully reading the prompt is still orders of magnitude less effort than actually writing a paper?

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[-] Lamps@lemm.ee 149 points 4 days ago

Just takes one student with a screen reader to get screwed over lol

[-] CaptDust@sh.itjust.works 100 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

A human would likely ask the professor who is Frankie Hawkes.. later in the post they reveal Hawkes is a dog. GPT just hallucinate something up to match the criteria.

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[-] doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 days ago

Doesn't help if students manually type the assignment requirements instead of just copying & pasting the entire document in there

[-] Logical@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Or, you know, if you read the prompt before sending, look at the question after you've selected it, or just read your own work once. This method will only work if students are being really stupid about cheating.

[-] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

And is harmful for people like me, who like to copy paste the pdf into a markdown file write answers there and send a rendered pdf to professors. While I keep the markdowns as my notes for everything. I'd read the text I copied.

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

That's an odd level of cheating yet being industrious in a tedious sort of way...

[-] Sabre363@sh.itjust.works 81 points 4 days ago

Easily by thwarted by simply proofreading your shit before you submit it

[-] xantoxis@lemmy.world 76 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Is it? If ChatGPT wrote your paper, why would citations of the work of Frankie Hawkes raise any red flags unless you happened to see this specific tweet? You'd just see ChatGPT filled in some research by someone you hadn't heard of. Whatever, turn it in. Proofreading anything you turn in is obviously a good idea, but it's not going to reveal that you fell into a trap here.

If you went so far as to learn who Frankie Hawkes is supposed to be, you'd probably find out he's irrelevant to this course of study and doesn't have any citeable works on the subject. But then, if you were doing that work, you aren't using ChatGPT in the first place. And that goes well beyond "proofreading".

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[-] yamanii@lemmy.world 74 points 4 days ago

There are professional cheaters and there are lazy ones, this is gonna get the lazy ones.

[-] MalditoBarbudo@programming.dev 32 points 4 days ago

I wouldn't call "professional cheaters" to the students that carefully proofread the output. People using chatgpt and proofreading content and bibliography later are using it as a tool, like any other (Wikipedia, related papers...), so they are not cheating. This hack is intended for the real cheaters, the ones that feed chatgpt with the assignment and return whatever hallucination it gives to you without checking anything else.

[-] Sylvartas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Bold of you to assume students proofread what chatGPT spits out

[-] Sabre363@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 days ago

I've worked as tutor, I know those little idiots ain't proofing a got-damn thing

[-] abbadon420@lemm.ee 27 points 4 days ago

But that's fine than. That shows that you at least know enough about the topic to realise that those topics should not belong there. Otherwise you could proofread and see nothing wrong with the references

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[-] ryven@lemmy.dbzer0.com 76 points 4 days ago

My college workflow was to copy the prompt and then "paste without formatting" in Word and leave that copy of the prompt at the top while I worked, I would absolutely have fallen for this. :P

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[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 77 points 4 days ago

Something I saw from the link someone provided to the thread, that seemed like a good point to bring up, is that any student using a screen reader, like someone visually impaired, might get caught up in that as well. Or for that matter, any student that happens to highlight the instructions, sees the hidden text, and doesnt realize why they are hidden and just thinks its some kind of mistake or something. Though I guess those students might appear slightly different if this person has no relevant papers to actually cite, and they go to the professor asking about it.

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[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 59 points 4 days ago

Btw, this is an old trick to cheat the automated CV processing, which doesn't work anymore in most cases.

[-] lettruthout@lemmy.world 38 points 4 days ago
[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

This is invisible on paper but readable if uploaded to chatGPT.

This sounds fake. It seems like only the most careless students wouldn't notice this "hidden" prompt or the quote from the dog.

Maybe if homework can be done by statistics, then it's not worth doing.

Maybe if a "teacher" has to trick their students in order to enforce pointless manual labor, then it's not worth doing.

Schools are not about education but about privilege, filtering, indoctrination, control, etc.

[-] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 28 points 4 days ago

The whole "maybe if the homework can be done by a machine then its not worth doing" thing is such a gross misunderstanding. Students need to learn how the simple things work in order to be able to learn the more complex things later on. If you want people that are capable of solving problems the machine can't do, you first have to teach them the things the machine can in fact do.

In practice, compute analytical derivatives or do mildly complicated addition by hand. We have automatic differentiation and computers for those things. But I having learned how to do those things has been absolutely critical for me to build the foundation I needed in order to be able to solve complex problems that an AI is far from being able to solve.

[-] ArchRecord@lemm.ee 16 points 4 days ago

Schools are not about education but about privilege, filtering, indoctrination, control, etc.

Many people attending school, primarily higher education like college, are privileged because education costs money, and those with more money are often more privileged. That does not mean school itself is about privilege, it means people with privilege can afford to attend it more easily. Of course, grants, scholarships, and savings still exist, and help many people afford education.

"Filtering" doesn't exactly provide enough context to make sense in this argument.

Indoctrination, if we go by the definition that defines it as teaching someone to accept a doctrine uncritically, is the opposite of what most educational institutions teach. If you understood how much effort goes into teaching critical thought as a skill to be used within and outside of education, you'd likely see how this doesn't make much sense. Furthermore, the heavily diverse range of beliefs, people, and viewpoints on campuses often provides a more well-rounded, diverse understanding of the world, and of the people's views within it, than a non-educational background can.

"Control" is just another fearmongering word. What control, exactly? How is it being applied?

Maybe if a “teacher” has to trick their students in order to enforce pointless manual labor, then it’s not worth doing.

They're not tricking students, they're tricking LLMs that students are using to get out of doing the work required of them to get a degree. The entire point of a degree is to signify that you understand the skills and topics required for a particular field. If you don't want to actually get the knowledge signified by the degree, then you can put "I use ChatGPT and it does just as good" on your resume, and see if employers value that the same.

Maybe if homework can be done by statistics, then it’s not worth doing.

All math homework can be done by a calculator. All the writing courses I did throughout elementary and middle school would have likely graded me higher if I'd used a modern LLM. All the history assignment's questions could have been answered with access to Wikipedia.

But if I'd done that, I wouldn't know math, I would know no history, and I wouldn't be able to properly write any long-form content.

Even when technology exists that can replace functions the human brain can do, we don't just sacrifice all attempts to use the knowledge ourselves because this machine can do it better, because without that, we would be limiting our future potential.

This sounds fake. It seems like only the most careless students wouldn’t notice this “hidden” prompt or the quote from the dog.

The prompt is likely colored the same as the page to make it visually invisible to the human eye upon first inspection.

And I'm sorry to say, but often times, the students who are the most careless, unwilling to even check work, and simply incapable of doing work themselves, are usually the same ones who use ChatGPT, and don't even proofread the output.

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this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
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