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Men losing their mind (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
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[-] atro_city@fedia.io 144 points 6 months ago

What does this even mean?

"Men lose their mind" = they start shouting and shitting on the floor in disbelief?

"Daughters aren't as forgiving as their wives": forgiving what exactly? Mistakes?

It's like they think they're saying something profound and agreeing with each other but saying nothing of value (as is natural on twitter).

[-] 2ugly2live@lemmy.world 108 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I think it's speaking about women who "allow" bad behavior.

Like, maybe the man's mom used to do all his chores for him without asking, so he comes to expect it. His wife, who is not his mother, says he has to do his own laundry and maybe puts their foot down about the whole "weaponized incompetence" some men use. The man is surprised, because he didn't expect his wife to be "less forgiving" than this mother, who just gave us and did it for him.

For daughters, sometimes daughters (or just children in general) , as an outside observer to the relationship, can tell that one parent is shit (in this case, the father). While the wife may go, "He didn't meant it, he's just tired," the daughter may not be "as forgiving" and just say he is abusive.

However, I don't think either of these are gender specific. Just depnsends on the dynamic at play.

[-] JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world 51 points 6 months ago

Yes. I mean I’m a man and I had no trouble understanding the post but for some reason it is very hard for some people

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[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 46 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I'm right there with you. I'm utterly confused.

What is there to forgive? Is thore some inherent shittyness in men that needs overlooking on the part of women, or suppressing on the part of men?

Or is this just talking about how gender equality as improved with each generation, so as the same dudes age, the younger women in their lives are asking them to be more and more fair?

[-] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 33 points 6 months ago

Not inherent, no, but culturally ingrained crappy behaviours? Sure.

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Absolutely, but those shouldn't be overlooked by anyone, and forgiven only once someone has made the effort to unlearn that shit.

Is the "profound" message here really just that as younger women enter the lives of their aging husbands and then fathers, they tolerate less and less of the historical sexist shittyness, as they've grown up a generation later than the previous main female figure in their lives?

Scoffing when asked to change ones behaviour for the better is not a gendered charachter fault. No-one likes being informed that something they've been doing, and consider normal, is bad, actually.

And that's not a reason not to improve. The opposite. It's a reason to embrace self-improvement, and to learn to do ones best to skip the denial phase.

Something I think most people, of both genders, can be very good at if they want to be.

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[-] Wirlocke 99 points 6 months ago

Good lord the discourse here is about as well as the man or bear discussions.

Something I notice is how everytime someone makes these kinds of criticisms, the counterarguments turn into a pit of semantics and extropolations. As if the original post was a massive research thesis rather than just women venting frustration over the entitlement and danger they're subjected to daily.

You gotta look past the specific wording to see the overarching societal themes, emotions, and issues. It's like those magic eye pictures.

[-] iheartneopets@lemm.ee 44 points 6 months ago

The undercurrent of misogyny is so so rampant on Lemmy, worse even than reddit was. Posts like this bring it right out. I can't believe how many upvotes some of these red-pill-ass comments have. It's really discouraging to see and often makes me too nervous to speak up on women's issues here on Lemmy, lest I be absolutely brigaded.

At least the bear can't use a keyboard and thus wouldn't be able to try and bully me into shutting up on the internet, so there's another instance where I'd choose a bear over a random man.

[-] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago

Half the comments here are shitting on men.

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[-] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 21 points 6 months ago

At least the bear can’t use a keyboard and thus wouldn’t be able to try and bully me into shutting up on the internet, so there’s another instance where I’d choose a bear over a random man.

Absolute mood.

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[-] Soup@lemmy.world 40 points 6 months ago

It’s insane. They get absolutely bent the fuck out of shape when women don’t immediately trust them to go into dark alleys with them and when a woman just says explicitly, off the top, what she wants and it doesn’t line up with their desires they go feral telling her unreasonable she’s being.

They talk such big shit about being generalized and then in turn refuse to accept a woman’s individual choices and preferences. They don’t even stop to understand that women cannot read minds to know who’s safe or not, and frankly just in that they kinda show exactly why they might be having trouble.

“I’d just like some basic emotional maturity.”

“Ok so this one time a woman was mean to me so real quick I’m gunna weaponize that and tell you that it gives me permission to be a big fucking baby.”

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[-] Numenor@lemmy.world 94 points 6 months ago
[-] atro_city@fedia.io 68 points 6 months ago
[-] CptEnder@lemmy.world 87 points 6 months ago

Why in earth would I compare the woman I'm blasting with my mother?! That's kinda weird.

[-] TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world 53 points 6 months ago

⚠️FREUD ALERT FREUD ALERT⚠️

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[-] hesusingthespiritbomb@lemmy.world 78 points 6 months ago

Look at this point I know more women with unrealistic relationship expectations than men.

The world has changed a ton in the past twenty years. There's been a lot of discussion about toxicity in regards to male gender roles, and fundamentals changes to what's acceptable for a man to expect in a relationship.

There hasn't really been that discussion in women. While many women have perfectly fair expectations, there are a lot of women who will expect a man to completely reject gendered expectations of them, while having a ton of expectations of a man. It's almost a joke among my single male friends that the more vocal someone is about being a feminist, the more likely they'll expect you to pay for the date.

There's also a subculture of women behaving in ways that would be considered objectively toxic a decade ago, but have been normalized due to the whole oppressor/oppressed culture war narrative. I've seen women bail on long term relationships in ways that are 100 percent because they just want to sleep around. I've seen women push their husband into an "ethically polyamaorous" relationship that always is extremely one sided. I've also seen a lot of women with an "I can do better" mentality that nobody in a relationship would have to put up with.

I'm not saying women are universally awful or anything. I'm just saying I think we need to have the same conversation around how women behave that we had in regards to how men behave.

[-] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 34 points 6 months ago

Most of the dudes I know who aren't currently married just don't expect to have a relationship at all at this point in their lives (mostly middle age IT guys). The consensus is online dating isn't worth it to even bother with and it's hard AF to meet anyone in the real world so they focus on their hobbies and socialize with their bros instead. There's no animosity towards women and there are a few women that come out with us when we go to the bar but nobody is pursuing romance.

[-] kofe@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

I mean, as a woman in my 30s, same. I'm not worried about it or anything, like if I meet someone that's great, but why stress over it? Dating is supposed to be fun. If you're stressing out, take a break. There's no rush. I say that knowing I only have so much time left to have kids, but again, stressing over it doesn't help

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[-] int_not_found@feddit.org 70 points 6 months ago

There is a fine line between valid criticism of gender roles & sexism.

An example of the former would be, "Men are dangerous for women". Of course not all men are dangerous, but it describes the experience of many women & how they have to navigate the world, to not be assaulted.

This one describes the dynamic of a relationship between individuals & assigns a thought pattern to one of those individuals, based on their gender.

Maybe I missed some nuances here & I would be glad to be enlightened, but this looks like plain sexism.

[-] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 57 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

There's a long, documented, researched, history of men being raised to expect things from women. It's not just housework but all kinds of things are taken much more seriously when a woman does something "wrong" than when a man does. It takes a lot of serious introspection and effort to break out of that programming so it's not a surprise that the majority of men don't, or only do so partially. The default state is that this stuff is sort of "invisible" because it seems so normal to how things are. So no, this is a factual description of a "standard" behaviour for men that only some are able to avoid.

If you at all accept that there are harmful but culturally ingrained gender roles then this is a natural consequence of that for anyone who hasn't deeply and actively questioned them. Then as those roles are indeed slowly being broken down it stands to reason that each successive generation is less willing to put up with them - but if you still see them as normal it will come as a surprise.

[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 62 points 6 months ago

There's a long, documented, researched, history of women being raised to expect things from men too. But if you seriously think this is the average expectation of men towards women, then you should go outside and touch some grass. Just because toxic gender stereotypes exist, does not mean you have to acknowledge every bullshit sexist stereotype as the truth.

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[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 21 points 6 months ago

If you at all accept that there are harmful but culturally ingrained gender roles

The problem is that all too often those harmful gender roles are only called out as being harmful to women, not to men, but they are. The solution to the gender roles issue is not digging trenches between genders.

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[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 21 points 6 months ago

It's not at all an uncommon story. Go to any women's support group or site, and it'll be a very consistent trend. A lot of people still have the old gender roles stuck in their heads, but they fail to acknowledge that some things have changed.

The big one is that women can now be financially independent. We're only 2 generations away from women being able to open a bank in their name in the US. Before that, women didn't have the financial freedom to live alone or divorce abusive/neglectful spouses.

The other one kind of ties into the first one, freedom of choice. It's not as big an expectation for women to marry, and people are finding that a lot of women would prefer to be alone and single than married. Where do you think all these memes of childless cat ladies come from? It didn't start with JD Vance. He just amplified it.

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[-] zarathustra0@lemmy.world 46 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Joke's on you, my mother was completely unforgiving.

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[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 45 points 6 months ago

What's the feminized version of a circlejerk? Circlerub? Circlejill? Circlefling?

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[-] pH3ra@lemmy.ml 42 points 6 months ago

These people never met my mother

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[-] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 36 points 6 months ago

Comment section here showing the user demographics of Lemmy lol

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[-] Entertainmeonly 34 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

There is some serious eww in these comments. Why are men so absolutely abhorrent at taking criticism? Stop being whining little boys. This whole comment section is written proof of the post itself. Too many of you sound like children on the floor having a tantrum.

[-] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 16 points 6 months ago

So when do we get to make blanket criticism of women and still be part of the left?

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[-] Pacattack57@lemmy.world 31 points 6 months ago

My daughters are wayyyyy more forgiving then my wife.

[-] Fatticus@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

My wife is wayyyyy more forgiving than my mother lol.

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[-] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 25 points 6 months ago

yeah yeah, we get it, you have forgiving mothers, nice humble brag.

[-] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 25 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Cool, another post to shit on guys just minding their own business.

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[-] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago

My daughter is 2, her forgiveness is not my concern.

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 31 points 6 months ago

with that mentality, it will be.

[-] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 26 points 6 months ago

I can only care about what i care about. She can be mad or sad about my actions but ultimately helping her become independant and moral is more important than selfish desire to be her friend. I do want her acceptance and grace, but my hope is those will be side effects of being a reliable father.

Worrying about approval is something weak people do, and weak people make poor parents.

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 6 months ago

is more important than selfish desire to be her friend

I think you're probably having too many assumptions about what people are saying, which betrays an inflexibility even stubbornness.

Worrying about approval is something weak people do, and weak people make poor parents.

"My way or the highway", eh? That style of parenting went out of fashion for a reason.

[-] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 24 points 6 months ago

I didnt say my way or the highway or even imply that. Just saying you gotta have strength of conviction. I make concessions and compromise all the time. I dont yell or bully my kid, but i stand firm when she acts out. Now who is making assumptions about whom?

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[-] aloesnapz@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago

fellow men. posting hot takes when nobody really asked is kind cringe. You're mad about what really?

[-] IAmNotACat@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago

Saying ‘fellow men’ is the real cringe.

Besides, they’re posting on a public form, that sorta invites discussion, no?

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[-] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

Sounds like the moms are to blame. Moms need to be less forgiving of their sons, to better prepare them for their future relationships.

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this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024
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