Also, in b4 fascists start pretending like the Stalinist bootlicker Thalmann hadn't spent the past half-decade backstabbing and burning bridges with the SPD, which had previously been cooperative with the KPD after the establishment of the Weimar Republic.
Collapse theory is fundamentally a privileged take. It is a position that is impossible to accept without either the assumption that you'd survive, or the assumption that the disproportionate harm to the disadvantaged is worth it for your end goals even if you die too.
Either way, you're declaring that your paradise can and should be built over the bodies of the disemprivileged, and are automatically wrong and a horrible person for even being able to think that way.
You are the exact kind of monster that built the colonialist model of Israel, just insisting that your nation built on the bodies of the innocent will be a more moral one somehow.
Collapse theory is fundamentally a privileged take
It's definitely a white-male-privileged take in the US.
It also just doesn't make sense from a logistics sense -- You want to address the current set of big problems by ... creating more big problems to address with the same/less resources and organizations? Some that are more time sensitive than others?
You want to address the current set of big problems by ... creating more big problems to address.
Right. There's already a shitload of big problems.
Then Thälmann was arrested and shot and killed in a death camp 11 years later...
Accelerationism is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever heard of.
Right, because if there was enough support for your stance that you could ensure it would prevail in the post collapse struggle, then you could almost certainly achieve it with democratic support instead.
I mean it is like wanting the cold war to end with nuclear weapons. No one wins and we all die. Even the preppers who built bunkers back then would not survive for long, and this is assuming they survive the initial blasts.
if democrats really cared about ppl voting, they would be introducing proportional representation (eg ranked choice) electoral reforms rather then blaming voters for knowing exactly what the democrats are...
that said... hold your nose and go vote if you are in a swing state.
if democrats really cared about ppl voting, they would be introducing proportional representation (eg ranked choice) electoral reforms rather then blaming voters for knowing exactly what the democrats are…
There's been considerable momentum towards ranked choice reform in the US in the past few years, most of it through the Dems.
There is a new bill that would implement Ranked Choice Voting for congressional elections.
You’re calling anti genocide protesters fascist now?
Only if their anti-genocide protest consists of helping fascists into power. All other anti-genocide protesters are based in my book.
You know that the people saying that the democratic party has to earn their vote are for a large portion muslims who can not vote for a party that will continue funding a genocide right? I find it appalling that instead of calling the people who are currently funding the genocide fascist, you are actually calling those people that are protesting against the genocide fascist.
You know that the people saying that the democratic party has to earn their vote are for a large portion muslims who can not vote for a party that will continue funding a genocide right?
Oh, cool, so doing that is going to reduce US support for the ongoing genocide, right?
... right...?
I find it appalling that instead of calling the people who are currently funding the genocide fascist, you are actually calling those people that are protesting against the genocide fascist.
Cool. I find it appalling that choosing to usher in fascists who will do everything in their power to assist the genocide is considered a morally acceptable choice by some people.
Protestation and striking is the only way to achieve goals that are against the interests of the ruling class. You are trying to shame the only people actually doing anything worthwhile. Electorialism is meaningless compared to protestation.
Protestation and striking is the only way to achieve goals that are against the interests of the ruling class. You are trying to shame the only people actually doing anything worthwhile. Electorialism is meaningless compared to protestation.
Oh, cool, so we're in agreement, then, that the people saying stuff like "The Democrats have to EARN my vote against fascism!" are actually disingenuous accelerationists doing the old conservative routine of "Meet me in the middle" with no intention of ever actually cooperating or improving anyone's life.
So… people asking the person who is supposed to represent them to meet them in the middle are facists? The ones asking the DNC to just, actually represent those it wants votes from?
Not the ones… actively supporting and furthering a genocide?
Ok. Yeah. Sure man. Because it’s clearly the thousands of people who should change and support the killing of their own, not the two who are supposed to represent them.
So… people asking the person who is supposed to represent them to meet them in the middle are facists?
My favorite part was late last year when so many Very Concerned Leftists were crying "IF THE DEMS CAME OUT IN FAVOR OF A CEASEFIRE, THEN I COULD SUPPORT THEM AGAINST THE LITERAL FASCISTS, OH WOE IS ME, I CANNOT DO SO UNTIL THEY AT LEAST DO THAT BARE MINIMUM OF EXPRESSING SUPPORT FOR A CEASEFIRE!"
And then when Biden began publicly supporting a ceasefire, they immediately changed their tack so they could continue supporting fascism in the US. Such is how it always goes with such creatures.
I mean, going above congress to still send arms to Israel while allowing them to continually sink negotiations for a ceasefire is not doing much to actually support it other than in name. They want actual action, not political theatre dems are known for. Like at the DNC Kamala starting by saying she will always support Israel. Then saying “oh and uh Palestine shouldn’t be completely murdered” to give the bare minimum. But hey, at least she did the bare minimum? Enough to allow some to still hold their nose and vote, though some will still hold out for better than that.
Even still, Green and PSL are what, 0.3% of the vote? Not even a third of a percent. You act like they are more to blame than the 47% republucan vote? So busy trying to turn progressives into an enemy, cuz you know, that’s what it’s gotta be right? Politics always has to be your team wins and everyone else is evil, cuz how else could you win as the lesser evil. lol. Fucking god. Let people push for the DNC to be more progressive, a third of a percent is a lot better than the 1.18% who vote libertarian. But having the DNC make people WANT to vote for them and get some of those ~40% who don’t vote would be good. A lot more good than 0.3% who will vote for someone more progressive.
I mean, going above congress to still send arms to Israel while allowing them to continually sink negotiations for a ceasefire is not doing much to actually support it other than in name. They want actual action, not political theatre dems are known for.
Do you wear a weight lifting belt while moving those goalposts? You should, because it would reduce the chance of back injury.
Saying something and actually doing something are two different things. No goalpost moved. People want actions to support the ceasefire, not words. Not pretend negotiations that we let Israel poison pill and sink continuously. We have leverage, we just refuse to use it. That is people’s problem with what is going on. Biden words have been completely hollow. If he followed through people would be stoked. It even looked like maybe he was serious almost but that was proved to be wrong, which is why people are rightfully upset.
There’s still hope maybe it happens eventually, but yeah idk man it’s wild you’re happy to watch millions get fucking genocided, entire cities fucking buried, because other guy would let it happen slightly faster.
I find it wild that you take that conclusion from what I said. The largest portion of Palestine protesters care about one thing, which is the quickest end to the ongoing genocide possible. In the US that means getting the government to stop funding said genocide. The means through which to do that are protesting and striking. Is there anything in this that screams accelerationist to you? I’m just telling you that most anti genocide protesters will not vote for the democratic party. However, those protesters are doing much more for Palestine than you are. So calling them fascist is indeed appalling.
Palestinians have fought this battle for decades. They are experienced with tactics to support their cause. They are not asking for you to vote, they are asking for you to organise your workplace to make sure that ties with Israel are being cut, and they are asking you to get on the streets to demand your government to stop supporting genocide. These are tactics that have historically been effective on this issue and other similar issues.
I find it wild that you take that conclusion from what I said.
Electorialism is meaningless compared to protestation.
Would you like to re-read the first line of the meme, or are you just spouting off without regard to what the topic actually is?
Are you reading my actual words or are you just spewing nonsense with intent? Recognising that electorialism is not as effective as protestation does not mean support for accelerationism. It just means that the people protesting on the streets are doing more good than a dem voter and therefore it is completely backwards to call them fascists.
It just means that the people protesting on the streets are doing more good than a dem voter
If all they manage to is change the current administration's policy by protesting on the streets without ensuring that the current fascist threat doesn't worm its way back into power, they've done a great deal less good than those of us involved in electoral politics working to actually block the fascist who jerks off to genocide and will have immense power to hurry it along.
I have nothing but respect for pro-Palestine protesters who understand the power they wield as citizens and voters. I don't have any respect for pro-Palestine protesters who think that allowing fascism to win is in any way kosher.
You can tell they're white because they think demanding to see genocide's manager is more effective than voting against even more genocide happening.
Who are you going to vote for that will stop supporting genocide? Do you think any President will force divestment from Israel? Or end the massive influx of Chinese goods through Walmart and Amazon?
When there is no option to vote against genocide you turn to the streets. What have you done to stop the genocide? Shame other people for not voting for the party that will continue funding a genocide?
When there is no option to vote against genocide you turn to the streets.
You've got a little under two months to overthrow the government. If your master plan isn't completed by then, the only moral choice is to vote strategically.
Only a small portion of the US needs to go on strike for it to be monetarily catastrophic for the ruling class to continue their strong support for the genocide. So yes, I think that a general strike is way more likely to stop the genocide than convincing people to vote for a party that will continue use their taxes to fund genocide.
Okay, so, like I said, you have a little under two months to complete that. Otherwise? Accept that political power comes with political responsibility.
Okay. Do you agree that calling people who are actually trying to do this fascist is twisted, given the fact that they are actively trying to change fascist decisions by the current US government through historically proven to be effective means?
Okay. Do you agree that calling people who are actually trying to do this fascist is twisted,
Only if their anti-genocide protest consists of helping fascists into power. All other anti-genocide protesters are based in my book.
Please try reading what I say before responding to it.
Correct.
"Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil."
You have a duty to ensure the least amount of harm is being done.
Saving three people out of ten is better than saving zero out of ten.
Rewatched the divergent series recently, in the last movie there's an exchange between two characters that goes roughly like this:
"If you only had enough to save one, would you choose a sick, dying old man or the young boy?"
"I wouldn't choose"
"Oh good, now they're both dead."
Sounds like Accelerationism. It's stupid, but not fascism.
Stalinists are absolutely fascists. Accelerationism is just the preferred technique.
Ah yes because as we know the SPD working with the Nazis was ok because it was a united coalition. Today we're all expected to vote for this Facist Lite™ liberal because? And after decades of "harm reduction" and slowly giving ground to the right what harm has been reduced? It seems to me that this country is dying a slow and painful death while the Liberals are too ignorant to notice it.
Ah yes because as we know the SPD working with the Nazis was ok because it was a united coalition.
I love that when it's pointed out that the KPD literally worked with the Nazis tankies resort to making shite up.
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