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submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by Apytele@sh.itjust.works to c/196@lemmy.world

"Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses - because somewhere down the track of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened." - Dwight D. Eisenhower 1945

The image is a black and white photo of a large pile of human skulls and bones in front of a barbed-wire fence.

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[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 120 points 3 weeks ago

Genuinely, Ike was the most recent Republican president that I truly respect. He was not perfect by a long shot, but he had his head on straight compared to many other politicians for a LOT of topics, considering the time in which he was raised, in the military, and serving as president.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 75 points 3 weeks ago

After the Civil Rights Act was signed by LBJ, there was a massive party realignment, and the Republican Party of Eisenhower's time died

[-] Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world 55 points 3 weeks ago

That's because he isn't actually a republican. This was before the party switch.

[-] xkbx@startrek.website 56 points 3 weeks ago

The whole party switch thing is a bit of a misnomer, or mislead - the fact is, you had completely different worlds at the time. For example, Lincoln’s republicans supported the abolition of slavery, the abolition of alcohol, and westward expansion. The opposing democrats at the time supported white supremacy and protections of religious minorities. Then go forward a few years, and Democrats (like Wilson) wanted income taxes and silver-based money, while Republicans (like McKinley) wanted tariffs and gold-based money. Then after that, you get closer to what we know now, which is Democrats wanting larger government and welfare for the poor, while Republicans wanted less government and anti-communist foreign policy.

So there’s less of a switch and more of different gradual challenges to different shifting groups of ideologies. It just looks like a switch when you look at individual issues that look like they hold the same water as other issues today.

For example, you can have people that are absolutely for welfare, but also against religious freedoms; the poor need to be housed and fed, but everyone needs to be Christian. You could have then an opposing party that absolutely hates the idea of being theocratic, because they believe in the individual person’s freedom to be themselves, but at the expense of people who need support. Sort of the same way how Libertarians and mostly left circles can all agree that drugs shouldn’t be criminalized today, but have polar opposite beliefs for economic policies and government services.

Or smth idk I’m not an expert, I’m just taking a rly long shit

[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 18 points 2 weeks ago

The Republicans started off as the party for rich Northerns. They took the abolitionist stance partly for humanitarian reasons, but also because industrialization of the South with it's massive slave labor pool would have crushed Northern industrialists. The GOP is still the party of Northern business owners, they just convinced white workers that they were also looking out for them.

[-] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 2 weeks ago

Hmm, how do we square that with the fact that Lincoln was very pro-labor and he argued against the myth that wealthy capitalists create jobs?: "It is [falsely] assumed that labor is available only in connection with capital; that nobody labors unless somebody else, owning capital, somehow by the use of it induces him to labor[...] Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" -Abe Lincoln , First Annual Message to the Senate and House of Representatives

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[-] Bubs12@lemm.ee 13 points 3 weeks ago

I would say he is solidly in the middle of the party switch that took a long time. Nixon was still his VP and FDR, a progressive democrat, was before him. But there were still a lot of conservative democrats in the south. The parties used to be a lot more ideologically idiosyncratic.

[-] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Isn't he also the one that was responsible for overthrowing the democratic governments of a lot of countries he thought were too communist?

[-] SSJMarx@lemm.ee 8 points 2 weeks ago

100%. Truman started the Cold War, and Eisenhower was the first Cold Warrior. Most notably he is the one who rejected the peace deal signed between the French and the Vietnamese communists, setting the stage for the Vietnam War. The Iranian prime minister was overthrown in favor of the Shah on his watch too.

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[-] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 87 points 3 weeks ago

As an indigenous person in Canada i know from personal experience that there are a lot of bastards everywhere that don't want to believe a lot of things that happened in the past.

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[-] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 73 points 2 weeks ago

If you visit the Holocaust museum you can see the only known photos documenting the attrocities as they happened. Someone snuck a camera and film in to a Auschwitz prisoner who managed to take 4 or 5 grainy photos showing the guards piling and burning bodies.

[-] mst@discuss.tchncs.de 31 points 2 weeks ago
[-] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Sadly, I give it 10 years before AI has eroded public trust in photos so extensively that no one believes any pictures or videos they see anymore

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[-] gencha@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)
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[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 49 points 2 weeks ago

You have been permanently banned from r/Conservative.

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[-] Frostbeard@lemmy.world 46 points 2 weeks ago

Eisenhower, the last good republican

[-] Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world 46 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The great works of Eisenhower while president of the US

Funding, and arming, paramilitary death squads to keep the price of super essential things like, like bananas, low by having the CIA create a coup in Guatemala. The resulting 40 year ethnic cleansing of Guatemalan natives. Project Ajax in Iran that over-threw their government for the Sha. Operation Haik which attempted to coup Indonesia in 1958. Purging the government of dissenters under the auspices of them being gay, and basically making the burgeoning lavender scare policy. Was instrumental in the formative days of what became the Vietnam war. Created, and authorized, policy that basically gave the US DOD and CIA cart blanche to interfere with foreign powers in the interest of the US's industry.

These are just the things I can come up with off the top of my head.

[-] smayonak@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

We have to distinguish between the Dulles Brothers and Eisenhower. The brothers were two of the biggest gangsters to ever step foot in DC. Because they were allowed to run operations without the knowledge of the president and they lied and manipulated presidents is not completely clear what Eisenhower knew.

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[-] theparadox@lemmy.world 33 points 2 weeks ago

With the power of generative AI and MAGA chucklefucks, now some bastard will just claim its a deepfake or a deepstate.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 weeks ago

It sucks, and we're not ready for it.

One reason we know that the moon landings were real is that the technology to fake them simply didn't exist in the 1960s. They didn't even have video tape back then, let alone computer graphics. Add to that the fact that almost everybody in the US got their news from one of 3 TV networks, or from newspapers that actually cared about and could afford to do real journalism. That means that when people saw the moon landings they knew they were witnessing something real. It was unfortunately also easy to cover up real things (like MK Ultra) when you only had to deal with 3 TV networks.

These days, especially for Americans, there are no authoritative sources of truth. (Australia has ABC, Britain has BBC, Canada has CBC, but the US has no not-for-profit news source that doesn't have to worry about pleasing advertisers). Add to that that every kind of media is subject to "deepfakes" and other kinds of manipulation.

And, this now affects historical events. When people in 1969 witnessed the moon landing, almost nobody thought it was fake. In 1969 it would have been relatively easy to remove almost any doubts anybody might have. But, memories are faulty and it's so easy to create fake evidence, that now even people who were alive and watching it live when the moon landing happened are now starting to doubt it.

In courts, we require evidence of various kinds because we know how unreliable people's memories are. But, it feels like we're heading for a future where your own memories may be more reliable than any research you're able to do. And, we're just not ready for that post-truth world.

[-] WamGams@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 weeks ago

Uhm... PBS/NPR exists and is frequently cited as the most trustworthy outlets.

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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

AI Generated Daguerreotype

[-] x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 3 weeks ago
[-] g0d0fm15ch13f@lemmy.world 72 points 3 weeks ago

Right, but if you read that link, you'll see that that quote isn't direct but instead a historians recollection of "words to that effect" from Ike. The following quote CAN be directly attributed to him:

I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”

[-] charonn0@startrek.website 7 points 2 weeks ago

From his war memoir Crusade in Europe:

The same day [April 12, 1945] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.

I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that 'the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.'

Some members of the visiting party were unable to through the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.

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[-] RangerJosie@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago

Incidentally. This is the exact same reason people are trying to take down Telegram right now.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

If the Holocaust were happening today Liberals would support it.

[-] Fridgeratr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 weeks ago
[-] SSJMarx@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago

They are currently supporting Kamala Harris, a candidate who has reaffirmed her support for sending weapons to the country currently enacting its own Final Solution. So yes.

[-] Fridgeratr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 2 weeks ago
[-] SSJMarx@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago

Denial is a river in Egypt, you need to face reality.

[-] Fridgeratr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 2 weeks ago

It does suck that she seems to want to continue sending weapons to Israel. I don't support that. But there are a zillion other reasons I do support her. Plus the other guy wants to "finish the job" and just wipe out Gaza. That's worse, fyi

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[-] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

Do you think Drumpf would somehow be kinder to the Palestinians?

[-] I_AM_A_CROW@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Cope harder

[-] SSJMarx@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago

Thinking of the time V*ush said "well actually the Jews did have control over German banks" and imagining the Democratic Party saying that Hitler had a right to self defense against them.

[-] FlaminGoku@reddthat.com 7 points 2 weeks ago

I see this is your other line of attack, clown.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

Hope you're not defending the attack against Genocide.

[-] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Are you guys all getting brain worms now like you did adult diapers and ear tampons?

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[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 10 points 3 weeks ago

He wasn't wrong

[-] Creeoyfred@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

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[-] AshMan85@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago
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