To all of these enlightened centrists in the comments: Just make sure to get down off the fence before the barbed wire goes up.
We are already at the point of campus grounds fenced up against protesting at multiple places,
Nazi germany had grocery stores. We won’t notice democracy ending.
Neoliberalism in the early 90s pulled in a few people from the Republican party, cost a shit ton of voters who had been faithfully voting D for their whole lives, and despite never really pulling anymore voters than that initial wave, the DNC still wants to continue the march to Reagan era trickle down economics hoping they can guilt trip voters because Republicans have gone absolutely insane on social issues to differentiate.
Meanwhile a candidate with an actual "centrist" economic policy isn't something we've been able to vote for in a generation, let alone someone that would be described as "leftwing" in any other 1st world country. Because the billionaires donate to both parties to ensure they always win.
The only difference were allowed to have these days is social issues, and apparently it's so bad now that genocide is one of the things the American public isn't allowed to have a day in anymore.
Political centrism and moderation in the Democratic party didn't begin with neoliberals.
Look, centrism is a real thing. There are people who really do like to analyze each and every problem from a more or less unbiased viewpoint and form strong opinions without the influence of ideology, while being ready for a compromise. Anyone who was serious about being a centrist I ever talked to defined their ideology this way.
With that being said there also are right-wingers who like to masquerade as centrist or sometimes moderate left just so they can use their supposed position to more effectively plant their ideas and try and normalize them.
But the thing I'm sick and tired of is when people try and pretend that this is true for every centrist, while ignoring the real problem that there are radical elements that try to masquerade as moderate ones and in doing so are polarizing and actively destroying our society.
Being centrist in America is just being right wing then generally. America is very skewed to the right globally
This view only works in a world where the right and left have a common view of reality and a common agreement on what the outcome should be, they just disagree on how to get there.
Which is why being centre-left or centre-right makes logical sense, since the positions and policies within those halves are consistent with their perception of reality and desired outcomes. And being unbiased about which position to pick within those ideologies is perfectly reasonable.
But being a centrist between the left and right doesn't make sense, as the view of reality and goals is entirely distinct. There's no middle ground between "cutting social services for the poor because you believe poor people deserve to be poor, and that hierarchical societies are inherently right", and that "we should increase social spending to help those that are less fortunate because an equal society is inherently just".
I'm definitely center. There's a ton of stuff I disagree with the majority of Lemmy on. (At least my home instance .world). That's because reality is nuanced, not all progressive politics work, or left politicians good.
But I'm not stupid, both sides clearly are not the same. Both bad in unique ways (from an American perspective that is) but one side is so much worse than the other to such a extreme degree that most of their politicians and even to a smaller degree their followers are just not worth the time of day.
I wish we lived in a world where we could all get along and have differing ideas without everyone getting all mad. Sadly we don't. So I play the line, that way my family can hopefully get the best outcome. It's all I can do.
The problem with you is Center in America is right wing everywhere else, so you aren't doing the good you think you are doing
center in america is right wing everywhere else
"everywhere else" is it though? USA center is right wing in many EU countries; most other countries governments are more right wing. Take a look at a map of where gay marriage is legal, or where marijuana use is criminalized.
I feel the same. I considered myself just left of center but if the political compass site is to be believed im about halfway from center to the max extreme for both econimic left and social libertarianism. So I guess im fairly over but I still wonder if that site is still effected by current days because I feel like back in the 70's so much was considered more of a central view.
Reality is nuances and America is big. Like REALLY big. I don't think a lot of the policies that are important to big cities make as much sense in rural areas and vice versa.
There are big pictures issues, like women's rights, gay rights, and trans rights that need to be protected across the country.
Then there are gun control policies that don't make a lot of sense in towns of 300 people but seem like common sense in cities with millions of people.
Personally, I believe we need to work on cutting out the people and saboteurs who are willfully, vehemently, and incessantly trying to divide us. Those that are doing their damnedest to try and make each other the enemy.
Hard agree.
As someone that grew up most of my life in a tiny, rural Ohio area. There are so many strange laws that extend from the cities, many of which can outright just be bad for the area.
Policy wise, local democrats are rarely liked and seen as weak in rural areas, which in my experience is usually correct, unfortunately. The Republicans are always money grabbers but generally get things done.
Frankly the system sucks.
Honestly, it's wild when I get into a policy debate and from someone's stance I can tell whether they live in a city, in the country, in suburbs, or whatever. Its hard to argue policy when people refuse to acknowledge that there are other parts of the country that aren't like the neighborhood they live in.
From my understanding, which I admit could be flawed, that is why there is the separation of federal, state, and local government.
Federal deals with the big shit across the country but doesn't get caught up in the small shit that only applies to Montana. It also acts as the check and balance to state laws to prevent them from being too egregious.
Yeah, I think that's how the separation is supposed to work. That being said, seems like the supreme court keeps poking it's nose where it doesn't belong. But all I can really do is complain on a lesser used website and vote.
Also, side note, how is Montana? I live in Texas atm, cause I followed my fiance down here, and it sucks. But we eventually want to get a house and may not stay here.
Ewww no. Fuck balance. Go hard when you can, mitigate losses when you can't.
I mean, damn, I consider myself a centrist but that basically means “not a worthless shitheel asshole traitor in the bag for russia and against doing anything for the American people”. I think gummint should GTFO peoples lives (so fuck off with your shit about gay people and religion and abortion) and pay its fucking bills (so fuck off with your tax cuts and spending). And it’s fucking absolutely asinine that any mentally defective degenerate can get a goddamn semiautomatic weapon, are you fucking nuts?
It doesn't really sound like you want the government to get out of people's lives. Fair taxation, defending protected classes, and gun regulation are all very hands-on, and I agree that they're all important. The real thing right wingers mean when they say "small government" is "no regulation for corporations or states" so they can be as authoritarian as they want locally and the rich don't need to pay taxes. Banning gay marriage, controlling reproductive rights, and immigration control are not small government tasks, they're just tasks they want the authority to mandate on a state level since they know they'll never get the entire country on board.
What I wish more "centrists" would realize is that no one in the country, except anarchists, actually want small government, because they can't enforce control over the things they don't like without it. Rules for thee, not for me.
Don't try to put me into one of your boxes please.
A 2 party system is a bad idea.
I'm not from the US but I would describe myself a a left leaning centrist. The parties I voted for in the last 5 elections where all center left.
If you map the parties based on left/right and progressive/conservative my vote is definitely center left and high progressive.
The US has a political system that sucks, where you only have 2 real options. A system where multiple parties have to form a coalition gives you the voter many options.
I'm not left or right I'm a secret third thing (Our current system is a complete joke and I'm plagued with dread about my inability to enact meaningful change, I still vote and stuff, but I don't feel like I'm having much of an effect)
What is the word… I used to hear it all the time but haven’t really heard it much these days. Oh what is that word.
Nuance.
Oh, neat. Propaganda done in the style of Far right facebook boomer humor! Love seeing Lemmy constantly generalize and misrepresent people.
This was me before covid, then I got radicalized to the left.
lol Destiny
You're right: we should be socialists and have governments like the PRC, North Korea, the ex-USSR, Cuba, Hoxhua's Albania, or the Stalinists in Spain during their civil war. Say what you will about the Khmer Rouge and Sendero Luminoso, but they weren't centrists or moderates.
Because the only options are North Korea or whatever the fuck you're doing, I guess
PRC, North Korea, the ex-USSR, Cuba, Hoxhua’s Albania, or the Stalinists in Spain during their civil war
What?
Why are you using rightwing dictatorships that lie about what they are. Instead of the actual socialist countries in Europe?
What actual socialist countries in Europe?
I think part of the problem here, is you don't understand socialism is an economic system.
And before you say "someone has to enforce it", yeah, that's how society works man. People have to enforce capitalism too, if you need examples of that, well....
That’s an article from 1950, perhaps not so relevant anymore today.
Not to say socialism isn’t a strong influence in many European countries, though I wouldn’t go so far as to call a European country as being primarily economically and politically “socialist”. Democratic socialism / Social democratic maybe, but that is much more of a centrist set of policies than the outright goal of a workers-owning-the-means-of-production economy. Just my 2c.
perhaps not so relevant anymore today.
Take your pick:
https://www.lifeinnorway.net/scandinavian-socialism/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism#Europe
https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/display/document/obo-9780199756223/obo-9780199756223-0022.xml
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-15-democratic-socialist-countries-181857008.html
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/democratic-socialist-countries
than the outright goal of a workers-owning-the-means-of-production economy. Just my 2c.
https://www.history.com/news/socialism-communism-differences
The simple fact is that Scandinavian countries are not, by any reasonable definition, socialist.
That’s your first link.
Scandinavia and the Nordic countries can be best described as social democracies. Effectively, they’re democratic countries in which its citizens are well cared for.
Some refer to this as democratic socialism, though this is far from correct. Some economists refer to it as cuddly capitalism, contrasting with what is seen as cut-throat capitalism in other Western countries.
And in Germany, Germany is called Deutschland...
What they have in the Nordic countries is described as socialism virtually everywhere else.
In America advocating for a 1/10 of what they have gets jumped straight to communist.
It shouldn't be a surprise that context is important.
Yet here we are
Socialism has a clear definition. Scandinavian countries are not even close to be in this definition. It doesn’t matter what uneducated Americans believe.
I like the name Cuddly Capitalism. It describes our economic model pretty well.
You saying every country to the left of us, and there's a ton, are basically totalitarian regimes? And please, tell me which countries are more right wing than us that you'd be happy to live in?
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