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[-] db2@lemmy.world 212 points 4 months ago

Oh look, another reason not to buy BMW, I'll just add it to the other 456788656752 reasons.

[-] jonne@infosec.pub 74 points 4 months ago

The problem is that once one manufacturer starts doing this, they'll all do it, so you won't even have the option of buying a new car without a subscription.

[-] Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de 48 points 4 months ago

I'm so gonna install Linux on my future car

[-] filcuk@lemmy.zip 65 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

'What do you mean the car is missing a driver?? Im sitting right here!'

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[-] golli@lemm.ee 174 points 4 months ago

If once you do not succeed, just try again next year. They tried and backtracked putting heated seats behind a paywall not even a year ago see here.

Unless laws are made to make this fundamentally illegal, they'll just keep pushing until it sticks. And once one manufacturer succeeds, they'll all follow.

[-] Tautvydaxx@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago

Since 2019 you have to pay 800$ a year to have your bmw use adaptive drive, 150$ to use the app.

[-] Iloveyurianime@ani.social 131 points 4 months ago

We are pirating car suspension now holy shit

[-] matthewmercury@reddthat.com 64 points 4 months ago

You wouldn’t download a car

[-] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago

You wouldn't download a configuration profile for your cars suspension!

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 106 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Next up, Anti-lock brakes as a Subscription Service. ASS.

[-] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 78 points 4 months ago

Well done BMW. Anything that leads to more people cycling instead of driving is a good thing in my book.

[-] joenforcer@midwest.social 51 points 4 months ago

People won't switch from driving to cycling over this. They'll just pick one of the several dozen other car manufacturers.

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[-] MehBlah@lemmy.world 75 points 4 months ago

In theory most subscription services provide additional content as time goes on. This only provides a capability that already exists on the car.

[-] curry@programming.dev 25 points 4 months ago

Scummy practices that should be outlawed, like retail stores raising prices just before a big sale so they can slap "80% off!" on their stuff.

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[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 67 points 4 months ago

Got it, don't buy cars built after 2010.

[-] Evrala@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Import something old and fun! Cars from smaller countries have lower mileage and can be cheap because they aren't as valuable as a comparable car from the US. It isn't hard to find a 25 year old car with about 50,000 miles on it.

JDM cars are especially nice now because of how weak the YEN is. Look outside the popular JDM cars and there are tons of things with easy to find parts for dirt cheap.

Or hell, get a not top trim of a popular model, and you can get something cheap. Want a station wagon built on the same platform as the Nissan Skyline? The Automatic Stageas are cheaper because tuners don't want them because they're an automatic and don't have a turbo, which makes them slower, but also more reliable.

Nissan Rasheens with the 1500cc engine are easy to maintain and have an engine that was used in some American cars, get the first true AWD CUV for about $5000 plus import fees.

Another cheap option is a Toyota Caldina, get a reliable awd station wagon with a nice interior for 2 or 4 grand including import fees. (Avoid the 2000ish GTT version with a turbo, turbo manifold is prone to warping on that engine and said manifold is hard to find in the US as those engines generally didnt sell in the US)

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[-] cheddar@programming.dev 58 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

These cars already cost more than my life, how can they ask for more money.

[-] BaronVonBort@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago

Because the people who buy them have it and BMW can get more out of them. The real problem is that they’ll buy it, and other manufacturers will see “hey, it’s a successful model and additional revenue generation!”

[-] Emerald@lemmy.world 54 points 4 months ago

"The pressure eased off a little when they ended subscriptions tied to heated seats, but the Internet rage machine has come back for vengeance."

lol. It's not vengeance or rage, its simply the fact that making someone pay for something they already own is dumb.

[-] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 51 points 4 months ago

You know it's just a matter of time before this shit starts being applied to budget cars.

...I really hope the tech crowd is working on jailbreaking this garbage.

[-] barryamelton@lemmy.ml 27 points 4 months ago

We try. We also pivot to open source to try and regain control because it's the only way. We even share our passions with those who ask.

You folks just roll your eyes and put more money on their hands.

[-] kautau@lemmy.world 38 points 4 months ago

This "tech crowd" and "you folks" dichotomy is not helpful at all. Tell people how they can help, volunteer, donate etc, don't wedge gaps between the same class fighting against the same ruling class. I'm a software engineer. I write open source software. I get that it's tiring and you can see the worst in people when doing it, but we're going to have to be better than that if we want to change things.

And for those reading like the top commenter, don't sit on your hands and wait for "tech folks" to figure stuff out. It's us vs. corporate greed, not "us hoping the tech folks save us from corporate greed" or "us tech folks being badgered like we should be some saviors against corporate greed." Write your representatives to tell them this isn't ok. Be mindful in your selection when you purchase a vehicle. Ask your tech savvy friends and family what you can do to help. You aren't helpless in this, and as OP said, just sitting and waiting for something to be fixed or changed doesn't help the overall goal.

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[-] Fades@lemmy.world 47 points 4 months ago

FUCK these out of control capitalists jesus christ.

[-] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 46 points 4 months ago

Why is this bad in a nutshell.

A) The only way to control access to this feature is to lock down and phone home. If it doesn't phone home then when someone figures out a way around your present security its possible for someone to sell said features forever. Such DRM could hurt repeatability by accident or more likely on purpose.

B) There is no reason to fail open so even if BMW is still chugging when they stop taking your cars phone calls and retires those servers you get no more feature.

C) The amount spent over the lifespan of a car wherein people opt to take care of their valuable asset absolutely dwarfs the cost able to be extracted up front

D) This functionality opens the door to a hacker not just turning off your features but turning off your car. This includes state sponsored attackers and people who are just generally pissed off at the geopolitical actions of your country of origin. If you are in the US that is a lot of fucking people.

E) Product segmentation on average increases the amount you can extract per user. Allowing segmentation by features turn on or off in software by the month it allows far greater segmentation with no reasonable expectation that the baseline will be lower. This means the lowest end user of a model pays the same for even less. The median user pays somewhat more and the max user pays a LOT more.

F) This means wholly paid for used cars now come with a car payment to the manufacturer.

Now there are half a hundred people on the boards of these companies and 338M of us in the US. 449M in the EU. There is no reason to allow this misfeature to continue to be a thing in our markets. If automakers don't like those restrictions any one of them can opt to most of the most valuable markets in the world and find their fortunes exclusively in China while their competitors eat their former marketshare.

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[-] obinice@lemmy.world 43 points 4 months ago

In what way does the suspension require regular servicing or an online connection to a server to function? That would be the only reason to offer it as an ongoing service cost.

Otherwise, you're just paying extra for something already in your car, not for an actual service, which would make no sense?

What next, paint ongoing service fees for having wheels? Not even for ensuring they're regularly replaced, serviced, or repaired, just for the ability to use them at all....

[-] Michal@programming.dev 39 points 4 months ago

Active suspension is software, just like Photoshop is. You need to pay subscription fee for Photoshop now, and BMW wants a subscription fee for their active suspension software too. Rent seeking and Enshittification.

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[-] exocortex@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

We long left the era where we "own" things that we buy. As everything is a computer now it has become very simple to control stuff that remotely that was working on its own before.

So the answer to "why would do this" is simply: "Because they can".

Every tiny decision is guided by increasing profit. No matter the side effects (short or long term ). Because with many shareholders administering pressure to maximize profits there's only one way to go (even if it's a dumb and shortsighted decision) maximizing profits NOW. If you are not doing that because you can see that increasing profits now will hurt profits in the future then you are hindering the project. You have to increase profits now, because if you are not then your competitor is doing it and that is a problem. If you are not going with the project you will be out of a job sooner or later. Then someone will take over that will make the decision you couldn't do.

This is a race to the bottom. Morals, integrity, honesty, responsibility and foresight are only obstacles in this logic (because the competition is not bound by them which gains them an advantage).

It's simply cheaper now to build everything in the car always and run an operating system that manages all these things and can control what you are doing in your car.

Cory Doctorow held a great keynote about this some ~10-ish years (?) ago with the title "The coming war on general computation" where he explained the side effects of putting DRM in every stupid appliance. The side effect here is that we cannot hack our cars to switch on the heated seats (or whatever other feature BMW is not allowing us to use for free) because of DRM. It is not "our" car, even though we bought it.

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[-] N0body@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 4 months ago

“We’re pivoting from serving peasants to fleecing rich dumbasses that subscribe and pay monthly fees for features built into the car.”

And they’ll make money doing it. Because there will never be a shortage of people with more money than sense.

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[-] Wildfathom9@lemmy.world 37 points 4 months ago

When you need fitgirl to help you with your car.

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[-] FireWire400@lemmy.world 36 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

They tried this with heated seats and no one wanted it, what made them think would we accept this?

German car makers have become such a joke in the last decade...

[-] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 34 points 4 months ago

They would make turn signals a subscription service but they won't ever get any money from that.

[-] uriel238 33 points 4 months ago

I'd hoped that BMW (and the rest of the automotive industry) would have learned from the subscription heated seats debacle.

Oh well, no Beemers for me.

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[-] Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 33 points 4 months ago

This is why I don't mourn Western car companies getting slaughtered by Chinese EVs. They can't really provide value by nickel and diming customers with subscriptions for components already installed on their privacy-invading overpriced cars.

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[-] Thunderwolf@lemmy.world 32 points 4 months ago

Should be a nottheonion article

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[-] TBi@lemmy.world 28 points 4 months ago

I’m never buying a BMW again. I had an electric i3 which had an inverter (charger) failure. BMW wanted €12k to fix it. Thankfully an independent offered to do it for 4K. But BMW still wanted 3K just to plug it in and authenticate the new block. Nothing else, just “bless” it. Made the fix cost-prohibitive so we just had to scrap the car. The battery, which most people fear, was fine on this 8 year old car.

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[-] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 24 points 4 months ago

Imagine suffering an accident and having to pay a plus because of a feature you can't even use on the parts you replace. I feel this is non-competitive bullshit that is following the trend Elon Musk started, although it probably started much earlier.

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[-] madcaesar@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago

We need a FOSS car....

[-] mindlight@lemm.ee 22 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

So you purchase ordinary suspension but get active suspension that works exactly like ordinary suspension and cost like active suspension to service....

It's time we get legislation that gives the consumer access to all encryption key pairs used in the product they purchased.

(For you who don't know what encryption key pairs are used for: they are used for the software to know that a change order, like "activate suspension", is legit and therefore will be executed.)

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[-] n3cr0@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

Thanks, I gladly stick with my old non-BMW car!

[-] n3cr0@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago

So, you buy a car with all these features, but you don't pay for them. They are disabled by default. You jailbreak your car, everything works without paying extra, but then you realize, you broke your warranty.

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[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 15 points 4 months ago

Hardware As A Service (HAAS).

[-] MaggiWuerze@feddit.org 23 points 4 months ago

Hardware as Sold Service (HASS (german for hate))

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[-] suzune@ani.social 14 points 4 months ago

I wish that someone sues when something breaks in the car that you didn't opt in for.

And... yet better, they get sued when something breaks that is in connection with a paid service and someone suspects that it's because they paid part caused it.

[-] billwashere@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

What ever happened to you buy a car and that’s it. No need for subscriptions to things like suspensions, steering wheels, running engines…. You know the things I bought.

And what happens when all the cars are like this? EAAS? (Enshittification As A Service)

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this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2024
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