AOC is definitely a voice in politics I've come to respect. I can assume pretty confidently that her opinion is well founded and with the right intentions... if she thinks Biden is best option at this point, that tells me pretty conclusively that Biden is genuinely the best option at this point.

The debate shenanigans, the age, whatever: all of that is a fraction of a drop in the ocean compared to the shitstorm that would be Trump presidency. It doesn't matter if any of us like Biden. Do you want a literal fascist running the country? If no, vote Biden. If yes, abstain / vote for literally anyone else.

Someone mentioned it in the thread about Elizabeth Warren supporting Biden. It isn't odd that smart, anti-wealthy, and anti-Trump at all costs progressives are backing Biden, and wealthy Democrat donors and centrist Democrats are demanding change.

These people see the risk a new candidate would bring. The wealthy just want someone who reflects their image. Either candidate doesn't really hurt their lifestyle.

Biden doesn't make policy decisions standing at podium reading a teleprompter. He sits in meeting and has discussions with advisors and has follow up discussions and rewrites policies and discusses votes and rewrites again with further discussions. That's who I'm voting for and I think he is still able to do that.

Support Joe Biden and ranked choice.

To be fair "He is in this race and I support him" is like saying "He's one of the candidates of all time". It is a milquetoast, borderline sarcastic endorsement.

Until we know different, me too.

Realistically, I’m not crazy about Biden, but if we wanted someone better we should have held primaries. Changing now is short sighted and won’t get us a more progressive candidate.

All we’ll get now is someone further to the right of Biden. It won’t be the electorate choosing a new Democratic nominee, it will be party insiders who choose someone even more out of touch than Biden.

First- I actually really like seeing AOC not being one of those "burn the house down" politicians as I knew her when she started. It seems like she's learned what it takes to get a large group of people to do one thing, and outrage politics does not do that. Frankly this is the restraint I would look for in a future presidential nominee.

Second- at a base level I'm very for Biden stepping down and giving us the opportunity to escape this hellhole of an election cycle. John Stewart put it pretty well to the DNC- "Do you understand the opportunity you have here? Do you have any idea how thirsty Americans are for any hint of inspiration or leadership, and a release from this choice of a megalomaniac and a suffocating gerontocracy?"

I always look for reasonable takes from opposing viewpoints, and I did find American Historian Allan Lichtman's argument for why Biden stepping down would not be the best idea. Here's the 6 minute video of his 13 keys to the Whitehouse which has predicted 9 of the past 10 elections.

TL;DW:

1. Party mandate: After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections.

2. No primary contest: There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination.

3. Incumbent seeking re-election: The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president.

4. No third party: There is no significant third party or independent campaign.

5. Strong short-term economy: The economy is not in recession during the election campaign.

6. Strong long-term economy: Real per capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms.

7. Major policy change: The incumbent administration affects major changes in national policy.

8. No social unrest: There is no sustained social unrest during the term.

9. No scandal: The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal.

10. No foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs.

11. Major foreign/military success: The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs.

12. Charismatic incumbent: The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero.

13. Uncharismatic challenger: The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero.

If 5 or fewer of these statements are False, then it is predicted that the incumbent will win. His take is that replacing Biden will do nothing but make point 2 & 3 turn from True statements to False statements, and increase the chances of Trump winning.

While crystal balls are everywhere and you could point to other political scientists who would say different, I was looking for a decent take on the counterpoint. I would also say that in political science, we like to have tools to help us make predictions so we can make actions. Just going on deep gut feeling won't cut it. Having a tool whose measurements don't always align with how you feel an outcome should be doesn't necessarily mean the tool is bad, it means it works independently from your biases. If you watch the video, I think he puts it well as the election is a thumbs up or thumbs down on the party more than it is the individual leader. It might be a helpful thought exercise to change the words "Trump" to "Republican" and "Biden" to "Democrat" when discussing the race as charisma and celebrity only goes so far in politics, but that's what we get caught up in the most.

I would rather have a Muppet for a President than white trash like Trump.

Rare AOC L. This is absolutely the wrong call.

Everyone who's paying attention can see that Biden is heading toward a loss with tragic consequences and only digs himself deeper every time he tries to convince people that the sky is green and replacing him is impossible.

Fact is that, despite spending two campaigns saying the opposite as a tactic, Biden wouldn't lose any sleep over losing. He knows that, because he's rich and privileged in the US, he'll be ok when fascism comes.

Apparently he cares less about the vast majority of the population who emphatically WON'T be ok than he does about his own ego and career. Yet another reason why he's definitely the wrong man for the job and would have been even if he WASN'T on course to lose. Which he is.

Progressives will be absolutely woodchippered if they did anything otherwise. Prob best to stand this one out and let the centrists fight it out. AOC is as delusional as Biden if she thinks he can win this. Not a great look.

Bad take. Biden clearly isn’t up for the job anymore. If it really was “just a cold” he would be out doing unscripted interviews and reassuring the public that he isn’t too confused to work after 5pm. The fact that he isn’t means his team thinks it’s more likely than not that he can’t actually convince the public that he’s still with it.

Putting someone else in is a risk but keeping him in is a bigger risk. Models are predicting a 60-70% chance of trump winning if the election was run today. This ignores that now the trump team and conservative media will now be pushing the age issue constantly. Who is going to be confident in Biden after he hides away from the public for the next few months and then drops out of the second debate?

Last, I’m deeply uncomfortable with the Democratic Party giving cover to a president that isn’t mentally fit for the job. There was so much talk about following norms and respecting the office of president while it was trump in the white house, but now some dems are openly saying they’re ok with Biden being controlled by his cabinet and family. Even if it all works out and Bidens cabinet runs the country for 4 more years it’s going to cast a long shadow on future elections where republicans can point to Biden as proof that democrats don’t respect the office and don’t even care if the nominee is competent.

She is becoming mama bear sooner that I ever thought possible.

Et tu, AOC?

I agree with much of what AOC has to say, but not this. I'll bet significant money if Biden remains the nominee that we will lose, unfortunately.

(lol whew there is some serious vote manipulation going on around these parts. I hope admins begin implementing some safeguards soon).

I think a lot of people are overthinking this. She's supporting Biden because as of today the battle is "over"

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/09/biden-house-democrats-withdraw-nominee

No use falling on swords anymore, apparently.

This is going to be awful though, as Biden is going to get demolished in another debate, and it'll look terrible if he refuses.