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submitted 2 months ago by Five@slrpnk.net to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] takeda@lemmy.world 157 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Sadly no. The way they turned it around was very clever.

So they said that only official presidential business is immune, but were ambiguous what that actually means, so inevitably they made it so it would go through them to determine what is the official business.

Second thing is that they picked up from their ass that Constitution also says that no official business can be used in any trial, even if it is unrelated. This not only jeopardizes all the indictments he had, it possibly will negate the New York trial.

trump already submitted request to have it referred based on this SCOTUS ruling.

This election might be the last free election we have. And even if trump loses it will still not be over.

Please vote and make your friends and family vote. And not just for president but also for the Congress.

Edit: I also recommend everyone a book "On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth Century" (there's also reading on YouTube) all the warning signs are present. The more people are aware what it is at stake the higher chance that this can be stopped.

[-] everett@lemmy.ml 49 points 2 months ago

I also recommend everyone a book "On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth Century"

In case it makes a difference to someone, it's a pretty short book.

[-] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 months ago

So officially dissolve the Supreme Court and instate a new pack of judges and let those judges decide if it was an "Official Act" and thus totally legal.

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[-] prole 121 points 2 months ago

Under this new standard, a president can go on a four-to-eight-year crime spree and then retire from public life, never to be held accountable.

Uhhh, that already happened.

[-] newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 69 points 2 months ago

Yeah, but now the Supreme Court said that's perfectly ok and totally legal.

[-] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 37 points 2 months ago

Well, we've already had a president assassinate US citizens, so let's rev up those predators and go looking for whatever billionaire's yacht Coney Barret, Kavanuahh, and Roberts are chilling on

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

If you want to get a bit more cynical, you could very easily describe the deaths of Fred Hampton and the Freedom Summer murders as presidential assassinations. If you want to take the extra step down the rabbit hole, there's very real reason to suspect MLK was assassinated by the FBI.

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[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago

Most presidents have done this. Whether it be bombing countries they're not at war with, trafficking drugs to enrich the war machine by arming enemies of the state, or invading foreign countries and committing war crimes based on their own manufactured lies.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

bombing countries they’re not at war with

Fun fact. We haven't officially declared war since 1941.

Korea, Vietnam, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, and now Ukraine? All NATO led military interventions or AUMF policing actions. No articles of war required.

trafficking drugs to enrich the war machine

One of the craziest "America just be like that" stories I've ever heard was the time Bush Sr set up a drug buy right outside the White House, by having the DEA extort a teenager picked up for selling crack on the opposite side of town to show up on Pennsylvania Avenue the night of a State of the Union Address and do a straw sale to another agent, just so he could talk about it on national TV an hour later like it happened organically.

Bush dangling a bag of crack on national TV and saying in his Father-Knows-Best voice that we need to go full-on Phoenix Program across every major American city, because of his little kabuki crack sale, is one of those "burned into my conscience" factoids that really changed how I saw our country operating.

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[-] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 75 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Would this same ruling have happened if Trump wasn’t involved? No, I don’t think so.

Stop the ~~steal~~ overthrow.

[-] billbasher@lemmy.world 73 points 2 months ago

I heard a good argument that while these justices are appointed for life to be judges, it doesn’t specify which branch. Reappointment them to a lower court and appoint new justices. They voted for this let them reap the consequences. Outline enforceable ethics standards.

[-] PorradaVFR@lemmy.world 34 points 2 months ago

The rules of the Senate, as undermined by McConnell and inexplicably tolerated by Schumer ensure it won't happen.

That co-equal branches thing was nice while we had it.

[-] Pringles@lemm.ee 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Just dismiss the senators as official business. What still stands in the way of a total power grab by a US president?

As long as it's official business and they keep it official by officially removing all obstacles, they are legally perfectly in the clear. IANAL obviously, but total power seems just a matter of being audacious enough to grab it.

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[-] Zier@fedia.io 10 points 2 months ago

Move them to Florida or Alabama.

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[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 42 points 2 months ago

The President Can Now Legally Assassinate You, Officially if it Supports the SCOTUS Majority's Agenda

Anything Biden did would be determined to be "not official" by them because he's a Democrat.

[-] chaonaut@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

Sounds like a reason for Biden to set a whole bunch of legal precedent while he's still president.

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[-] TaterTurnipTulip@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

As I mentioned on another comment, there is no mechanism for the court to enforce that. The DOJ is under the President. Who will arrest the President? The SC may think this empowers them more, but it really does not.

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The conservative court acts in tandem with the GOP. Any government organization run by them will provide the support.

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[-] cmoney@lemmy.world 34 points 2 months ago

It's settled law so not to worry, they can just change their minds later when it doesn't benefit their conservative bosses.

[-] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 31 points 2 months ago

The president can also now legally dissolve the Supreme Court and instate a new supreme Court who can then make the decision if it was an official act or not.

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[-] Resol@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

Welcome back to another episode of "Where's Humanity Going to Shit Next?", where we tackle the depressing consequences of the actions of the human race to our beloved planet Earth. This episode we visit the US once again, where the president decides he now has the power to kill you himself if he feels like it.

Join us next time to see where humanity is really gonna shit next.

[-] Fades@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago

This election will be the final free and fair one. God help us all

[-] hypnoton@discuss.online 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The pres can now assassinate a billionaire and take all their wealth for themselves as an official act, and be immune.

[-] rayyy@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Anything can be defined to suit their needs.

[-] isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 2 months ago

isn't that the definition of, I don't know, a king?

[-] TechNerdWizard42@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

The US has already extrajudicialy murdered a US citizen on purpose. The US under Obama sent a drone to murder a citizen without a trial.

Precedent was publicly set then.

The US 3 letter agencies have been doing this in secret for their entire time in power. But those are widely considered outside the law but necessary. Whatever that means.

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[-] twistypencil@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

Biden needs to commit to overturning this, and ideally Citizen's United, if he is re elected

[-] medicsofanarchy@lemmy.world 37 points 2 months ago

Screw that, he's elected now. Just do it.

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[-] anticolonialist@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

You would think that somebody that called themselves a journalist would actually have journalistic integrity. Nothing the 'journalist' claimed was in the SCOTUS ruling. SCOTUS ruled that the president has immunity for many of his presidential actions and none for personal actions such as going on a murder streak

[-] Ranvier@sopuli.xyz 68 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Under this ruling the president has absolute immunity for their use of any powers granted by the constitution, and that includes use of the military, pardon powers, and appointing and firing of executive department officials. Their motivations and purposes for use of those powers cannot be questioned by the courts or by any laws passed by congress.

The whole "official" vs "non official" acts things only comes into play for powers not explicitly granted by the constitution. And even then the president gets presumptive immunity.

Go read the actual ruling and the dissents and stop spreading misinformation. The journalist and the headline are accurate.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf

[-] maegul@lemmy.ml 40 points 2 months ago

Quoting from Sotomayer's dissent (pp 29-30, paragraphing my own):

This new official-acts immunity now “lies about like a loaded weapon” for any President that wishes to place his own interests, his own political survival, or his own financial gain, above the interests of the Nation. Kore- matsu v. United States, 323 U. S. 214, 246 (1944) (Jackson, J., dissenting).

The President of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world.

When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution.

Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to as- sassinate a political rival? Immune.

Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune.

Takes a bribe in ex- change for a pardon?

Immune. Immune, immune, immune.


They go on with an incisive critique of the majority's reasoning:

Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trap- pings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today.

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[-] Chozo@fedia.io 21 points 2 months ago

SCOTUS ruled that the president has immunity for many of his presidential actions and none for personal actions such as going on a murder streak

Right, that's literally the point. All a malfeasant president would need to do is declare that assassinating political rivals is an official presidential action. If the president argues that it's an official act of their office and not of their own personhood, there's little room to hold them accountable for it.

It may seem like an absolutely ridiculous argument, and that's because it is. What constitutes an "official" presidential action was left intentionally un-defined by the court, so that such ridiculous arguments could be treated as legitimate if the immunity is challenged.

[-] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

Perhaps Biden could firmly establish precedent for that...two birds, etc.

[-] vzq 14 points 2 months ago

I would take this at face value except for the fact that the president is the commander in chief of the largest, best equipped, most lethal, official killing organization in the planet.

Killing is, and has always been, a possible official act.

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 10 points 2 months ago

Why should we listen to you and not Sotomayor?

[-] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The only remedy the current court's ruling really allows is impeachment. It essentially means that (absent a later ruling specifying exactly what counts as a President's "official acts,") the President can do literally anything he wants and never suffer any consequences. Don't agree that what he was doing was an official act? Impeach him or stfu. He's not going to jail for breaking any law, ever.

[-] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 9 points 2 months ago

Who's going to impeach him? They will file the articles of impeachment then get waxed that night on their way home.

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[-] Johnmannesca@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

All this murder crap is lame; why has nobody been parroting how the president can do other crimes, like tax fraud or lie under oath or buying drugs or literally anything but murder?

[-] JesusSon@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

Because the point is to scare you. "Breaking news president buys crack" is not as scary as "Breaking news president axe murders cabinet."

The ruling is not good, but it's not Seal Team Six executes its political rival bad. It's more likely to be President sells nuke secrets to Saudi Arabia under the new official "I Get to Sell Nuclear Secrets to Saudi Arabia Act" he just made up right now.

[-] stinerman@midwest.social 10 points 2 months ago

The President can fire employees that refuse to have sex with him. Firing executive branch employees is well within the President's power. If they don't submit to him, he can fire them. Official act.

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this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2024
810 points (100.0% liked)

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