Yeah, make them out of metal, that rolls on metal roads. And those metal tires can carry a ton more weight, so put a lot of people in them who are going the same way.
Oh right, we already have those.
Noooo, you don’t get it, bro. Just one more lane, please. I promise, it will be better than last time. One more lane, that’s all we need. I’m begging you, please.
I’m on my knees here. One more lane, just one more! This time it will be different, I swear. We won’t have traffic jams, I promise! Just one more lane and we’ll be free.
Come on, man, think of the children. Just one more lane. I’m begging you. For the love of liberty, just one more lane!
Though “those” are wildly inaccessible and/or unrealistic in parts of the world.
Edit: I was trying to say “unrealistic to use for most people today,” I wasn’t trying to brush off public transportation as something we shouldn’t do at all
That's a policy issue, not one of engineering or physical constraints.
Hot take: tire particulates are a conservative anti-EV talking point. "My V8 mustang weighs less than an EV, therefore its better on pollution than a EV because tire particulates". Totally disregarding the impact of tailpipe emissions.
It is also a vaild anti-car talking point.
!fuckcars@lemmy.world material
I think it's just reminding people that EVs aren't a panacea to all our issues with transportation, and they actually exacerbates at least one of those issues. This is while we know there are better solutions for >90% of our personal transportation with public transportation, bicycling, walking, micro-mobility, etc. Moving one or two people around with a multi-tonne machine is insanely inefficient!
No it's not, because conservatives don't think micro plastics are a problem. Pretty soon there will be truck bros making tiktoks competing to see how quickly they can destroy a set of tires just to "trigger the libs".
One person I know claimed to have run calculations, and found that the tire dust alone was putting out more pollution than the tires and tailpipe of the average gas car. Idk where they got their numbers or how that could work out, since the average gas car in America is a large truck.
It could be true. Catalytic converters do a pretty good job of filtering out most pollutants. They also increase CO2 emissions in a variety of direct and indirect ways. Everything else is lower, though.
The way to make EV tires pollute less is to not chase 600+ mile range. Keep them around 300-400 miles, and use further battery improvements to reduce weight. There's no reason EVs have to be heavier forever. With better charging infrastructure, 400 miles is more than enough.
The way to fix everything else wrong with them is to not make cars the default mode of transportation.
What kind of backhanded EV misinformation bullshit is this?
Electric, gas, petrol, hydrogen, diesel, cooking oil or vodka; what you put in your car to make it go makes no difference to the tires or the wear.
From the article:
In an EV era, tires are becoming the greatest emitters of particulate matter
The point being that electric drops tailpipe emissions to zero, making tires the next target for reducing emissions.
That sentence and headline are completely wrong though. Tires already are one of the greatest emitters of particulate matter even with ICE cars in mind, because this is a general car issue and cannot really be directly resolved. An improvement would be less weight. If cars were smaller and consequently lighter, then they'd pollute less. But unfortunately we are still going the opposite direction and cars are still getting fatter and fatter, just like the people driving them.
That explanation is fair enough but the headline is red meat the the EV disinformation brigade.
That explanation is fair enough but the headline is red meat the the EV disinformation brigade.
It's funny how words affect people differently.
Not long ago, I posted a short, precisely-stated comment mentioning an observed fact that I had verified with a relevant authority. When I later checked in, I was surprised to find someone accusing me of spreading misinformation, and my comment removed by a moderator. It was clear that my accuser had badly misinterpreted my words. He refused to admit it or accept clarification. (And the mod had already acted, rashly.)
I re-checked what I had written about twenty times over the course of the day. There was nothing there to support the accusation. My best guess is that my phrasing or the subject matter might have touched on rough emotions from a bad experience, leading him to see what he expected to see instead of what I wrote, and triggering attack mode.
Communicating well really is complicated. It takes work on both sides, and can quickly turn into a bad time if it goes off the rails.
Because of this, I've been making an effort to read (and re-read) charitably, especially with people I don't know well.
That’s a terrible thing to say!
…Only joking.
I tried to buy an EV for my parents a couple of weeks ago and the dealer had the EV misinformation playbook memorised and tried to convince us that EVs were a fad and that should get a hybrid until Hydrogen takes over.
I’ve decided that whenever I see these common myths, I’m not going to just let the misinformation go unquestioned.
In this case I think specifically focusing on EVs will generate more clicks for article writers, but it does also feed a common anti-EV narrative that they are somehow worse than ICE cars because of tire wear, which is not true.
I do see the other side that the tires being developed are specifically looking at EV owners, so this is a tough one to get the balance right on, but I do still think the headline is written to stir trouble and generate clicks.
One thing is certain, America needs to stop buying so many trucks!
It does. EVs are much heavier due to battery weight and have more power and torque. Which all results in more tire wear.
2023 top 5 vehicles sold in USA and weight:
1 - Ford F-150 4069-5697lbs
2 - Chevrolet Silverado 4400-6947lbs
3 - Ram pickup 4765-6440lbs
4 - Toyota RAV4 3370lbs
5 - Tesla Model Y 4416lbs
Looks like the only electric on the list is below the average weight. We don’t have these conversations about the trucks.
That's a list of a bunch of trucks compared to a midsized SUV, so you're kind of proving yourself wrong. Cars are split into weight classes, so a comparison that doesn't acknowledge that isn't very useful. A EV Sedan is on average much heavier than an ICE sedan.
No one's saying ICE vehicles are better for the environment than EVs
Those are the most sold vehicles in the US, when you have heavy EV’s in the top slots you can say that heavy ev’s are a problem… until then it’s what you are buying is causing the problem.
Just because something isn't the biggest problem doesn't mean it's not a problem worth talking about.
I agree entirely, but the title of this post suggests that EVs are the problem, but actually it’s heavy vehicles.
Additionally when we say “problem”, particulate pollution from vehicles is 99.9% a diesel problem, and 0.1% a tire problem. (Not actual statistics but let me know how wrong I am with the actual stat)
Trucks are a whole other issue into themselves, though. Not just the tire wear, but their terrible fuel economy.
7,000 lbs, fucking hell. Who needs such a massive vehicle??
Fragile egoes
Well there are contractors who need to tow heavy machinery around, so about 0.01% of the people that buy them need them.
This is false. They aren't really that much heavier, 1k lb or so. It's not the weight that tears up tires it's the instant and 100% torque when you hit the accelerator. If you go easy on the launches your tires will last longer.
Hey man, it's got nothing to do with them being heavier, it IS about how that weight is distributed differently. You've mispoken and now everyone is latched on to something that isn't true about something that is true.
EV tires are made from different compounds then truck and car tires which causes them to wear ~20% faster.
EVs have instant torque delivery, which can put more strain on the tires during acceleration. Therefore, they need EV tires that can handle the increased force and extra weight.
Electric vehicles have heavy battery packs, affecting the overall weight distribution. This can impact tire wear, so EV tires are designed to carry and distribute the extra weight effectively.
EV tires are engineered to have lower rolling resistance. These tires reduce the energy required to move the vehicle, resulting in better range and longer battery life.
Most EVs use regenerative braking systems, which recover energy during braking. EV tires offer better traction and grip, enhancing the effectiveness of regenerative braking.
Electric vehicles are generally quieter than traditional ICE vehicles. To complement this characteristic, EV tires are built to reduce road noise and vibrations, providing a quieter and more comfortable ride
It’s dumb, but I think the author was trying to say, “we have an emissions solution for the motor, and now it’s worth exploring where else we need to address emissions for motor vehicles.”
Now how about using iron tires on iron road? And using public transport?
Fuck yeah, public transit - Right in my veins, lets go.
But for right now, there is ZERO public transit infrastructure where I live, which is only about 20-30 minutes to a medium-sized city's downtown. And when I say ZERO, I mean ZERO. We don't even have busses here. No trains. NOTHING. We don't even have sidewalks on most roads - if you want to walk, you're literally walking in the road. I used to ride a bike to work a long time ago - I can't even count the number of times I've had shit thrown at me by shitbag rednecks as they zoomed past in their lifted pickup trucks.
The local governments' answer to all this is "If you don't have a car, fuck you." Cars are literally the only option. If you don't have a car or a driver's license, you better find somebody who does and give them gas money, or consign yourself to paying for Uber/Lyft anytime you want to go anywhere. It's straight-up dangerous to travel any other way around here.
whispering more trains
Trains are the best electric vehicles
So this big breakthrough in tire technology is . . . making them harder and reducing their grip?
And now to make lighter EVs that don't wear on the road so much.
And now to make lighter EVs that don’t wear on the road so much.
Tesla Model 3 Long Range (as an example) weighs in at 4,034 lbs, while the Ford F150 is 4,391 to 5,863 lbs.
Shouldn't we start with the majority of ICE vehicles which already weigh the same or more than EVs?
A model 3 to an f150 is absolutely apples and oranges.
The cars might be, but their weights are their weights and that is an apples to apples comparison in the context of
And now to make lighter EVs that don't wear on the road so much.
Make tires out of ground up bureaucrats, they're organic and biodegradable, and there's an endless supply of them.
Pls don't make them soy-based or some human food based, rodents and other small critters with teeth will gnaw at them like what happens with engine hoses...
It's going to be all about the price.
My hybrid recommends "eco" style tires to get the best gas mileage. Those were $100 more, per tire, than the standard low-profiles. At the time, I commuted about 110 miles/day, so tires typically only lasted me about a year before they were either officially worn out or too worn to be safe to drive in winter.
I only noticed about a 1-2 MPG loss with the "standard" tires versus the "eco" ones that came with it. Over the course of a year, I doubt that 1-2 MPG added up to the $400 difference.
So, these cleaner tires are a good thing, assuming they're not more expensive than current-style tires. Depending on use-case, 35% longer life (if that holds true) may be able to tempt price-conscious buyers.
All that said, I could definitely see these becoming the "factory" tires for new EVs, though.
Price is definitely important, but so is traction. If stopping distance increases because eco materials grip less, that would be a concern.
My criteria are performance results, wear rating, and price.
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
