People are realizing they're just dieing for some other pricks profit?
In the run up to WW2, the US government made a very big deal of socially incentivizing military enlistment. The GI Bill offered education and housing benefits. Military work was competitive with the private sector and you had lots of off-ramps into the civilian side of the government. Military families enjoyed local prestige, particularly in the officer's corps, so it was a good stepping stone up the socio-economic ladder. And the military operated as a strong network for business advancement, both as a military contractor and as a civilian with a tight-knit social circle of ex-military friends and neighbors.
All of that has been dissolving since the Vietnam Era. Soldiering isn't considered a particularly noble profession. The pay is shit. The benefits have been cut back enormously. Enlisted pay is worse than service sector work and military families often live in poverty. There's no real path to career advancement and enormous liabilities that come with 5+ years working around dangerous military equipment.
40 years ago, you could make a litany of arguments for why military service was personally advantageous. Today? The only reason to join is because you've got a shot at some brass, and even then you'd be way better off angling for a high paying civilian role.
They tired to get me to join because I had to take asvab to graduate and got a good score. I'm really surprised I didn't. Almost thirty years later I'm probably more poor then I would have been but I don't have PTSD and I'm not a monster... So that's nice
I can't speak to everyone's experience, but I did my 4 and got out in 2020 due to a physical injury. While I was in it wasn't great, but my wife and I collectively made about 100k/year with her as a teacher, we lived pretty well.
Since I got out, I attend school for free, receive a housing stipend, don't pay property taxes, receive free healthcare, and I'll receive about $50k this year in tax free disability. My kids and wife will have tuition if they decide to go (back) to school and they all receive free health insurance.
I don't think there's a lack of incentives at all, but simply people don't know of the benefits they can receive. No one sits down with them and explains it all and we end up with vets with PTSD on the streets because of it
Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like some (a lot) of your benefits are from your injury/disability?
Are you saying everyone should get disabled coming out of the military in order to collect benefits?
What are you on about?
I was in 2011-2016 (enlisted) and it was a great start to my career.
When I was in we made plenty to live on and save up. I got into a job that translated well to the civilian side and I now make over 250k a year without a degree. Not that I couldn’t pay for it, because that would also not cost me anything if I chose to do it.
Try recommending this to people complaining about their lack of options on Lemmy and you’ll get crucified because they don’t like the military.
Not the ultra patriots, they think other people's kids are dieing to keep us safe from ... Communism? Socialism? Something like that?
Whatever it is, they are brown skinned and that's important
This is a shortage I can get behind.
Good.
They won't stop then they're out, they'll just draft people who didn't sign up for this shit and force them to fight to the death.
Almost like we're sick of killing each other for the gains of the wealthy and powerful.
Conscription is the only option many governments have (including possibly, one a draft-dodging Trump-led presidency is considering). The rest of the world is not like Finland. If conscription becomes the norm, anti-establishment actions will become more commonplace.
As an American, I'm all for forced conscription.
Only because it forces people who otherwise try to be "not political, teehee" and pretend our corrupt, captured, failing nation is fine to wake the fuck up and revolt.
For the record, in normal times, I think there should be mandatory national service for a year, but I don't agree a year of service has to be or even should be military. There should be a strong peace core that builds housing for the homeless, provides community services, etc.
I think it would give the US what it most needs and lacks almost entirely: empathy. Especially for our worst off, most suffering citizens.
There should be a strong peace core that builds housing for the homeless, provides community services, etc.
I wonder if you could work out a system where you could work it off in hospitals cleaning bed pans, helping nurses/doctors/patients with things that don't require the doctors and nurses (like bringing blankets and stuff;); and in return getting 2 years free towards becoming a doctor/nurse.
Do the same with lawschool and helping public defenders with... stuff. or other fields that benefit society, too. If none of that really interests you... then building housing, cleaning parks, and, er, other stuff.
reward: two years tuition.
Just change that to goes to help out on the farms and it's literal Mao Zedong
Skin in the game has a way of bringing reality into sharp relief, don't you find?
I was thinking something along those lines would be cool too, pretty much anything you could volunteer for would be a great start.
Conscription? You'll need more than that. You'd have to press-gang those kids into service, and then hope they don't revolt.
Other alternatives: 1) Becoming the enemy - telling them their families' lives are forfeit if they don't pass muster. 2) Some really top-notch propaganda.
I can think of at least one country that would do both of these, but would deny the first one.
Good! Put “the world leaders” in a Thunderdome arena and let them fight it out. Why should anyone else fight their petty squabbles?
When I was a kid, I was invited to a middle school dance by a girl in my neighborhood. I wasn't into her, but I said yes to be nice. Took her to get food, then to the dance. It was at her school, so I didn't know ANYONE there. Got there, asked her to dance, and in her exuberance, she accidentally bumped behinds with another girl dancing nearby. Well, you would've thought that my date had snatched her weave and spat in her face with how this girl reacted. She started yelling, pushing my date, and eventually called over a group of guys to beat me up. Suddenly I'm surrounded by 5 guys all at least a head taller than me. I'm still proud of my response.
I started talking to the lead guy, who was towering over me, told him we were dancing, that my date accidentally bumped his date. I said "I'm not mad, you're not mad, we've never even seen each other before. These two women we're with? THEY'RE the ones who are mad. They want somebody to fight, so let THEM do it! I don't give a shit about any of this!"
He looked at me, looked at his girl (who was now much quieter), nodded his head, and walked off.
I react similarly to wars my country's government starts. "Oh, you guys are big mad and want somebody to fight them? Ok, here's a weapon, have at it!"
Government says there's no more draft... Just a registry for boys who could be drafted...not that it's gonna happen.
So rest assured, there's no more draft, until Congress implements a new draft
You say that like they're trying to hide it, but it's literally the stated purpose of the Selective Service registration. Nothing surreptitious about it.
Yes. That's how it's been since we left Vietnam. Good job. You cracked the case.
There is a draft. making life unliveable until someone joins the ranks. The whole ‘we’ll pay for your college’ whilst making education unattainable in any other way is a draft.
Good. Everyone should take a note from Phill Ochs and sing 'I aint marching anymore'
What if war was declared and nobody showed?
Phil Ochs was absolutely amazing and had such a beautiful voice. It's a shame he's not more well-known.
Despite an unfortunate line about supporting Mao, "I'm Going to Say it Now" is still a terrific song about student protest. I wonder if someone could come up with a better line?
The powers that be need some big terror attacks to drum up that famed American war lust. Get everyone driving around with flags on their cars and a good boogey man to hate. Maybe some fabricated Iranian yellow cake but maybe not that exactly because it's too close to Iraqi yellow cake. Which never existed but why let facts interrupt a good war fervour.
If Trump gets in power, he might just blow up a few churches and have those operatives leave leaflets with "us gays did it!", printed in rainbow colours. The most effective enemy is one that you can say is within the motherland, because you can blame them for everything, including mistakes made within your own political party.
I wish this statement was wholly a bad-taste joke that would never, ever happen.
Some of what he says in it is a little dated since it directly references the 1991 Gulf War, but Jello Biafra's "Die for Oil, Sucker" applies to today in so many ways as well.
Is this why Congress just passed the automatic draft? Are they about to enforce our young men to join the army?
Selective Service (draft registration) was always mandatory; now it's just automatic instead of having to fill out paperwork when you turn 18.
But I didn't know a single person who filled out any paperwork for the draft when they turned 18. So clearly there is some loophole.
The loophole is they never applied for federal jobs or benefits so they fell through the cracks. Hence the fix.
I did get a federal loan for college, so guess I must have enrolled without really knowing it. It was a really long time ago.
Pretty sure mine was attached to the paperwork when I got my non-provisional drivers license at 18.
You do though lol
Oh neat, wonder what 3rd world country they plan on liberating. Hopefully their own.
Militaries are doing more with less these days, person-wise, though still with massively inflated budgets. These days you operate a large standing army when you're worried that your youth might get bored and tear your country up if you don't keep them busy rather than because you expect to use them in waves of mass infantry rushes.
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